Israel rightfully own the West Bank . - Page 6




 
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January 13th, 2011  
senojekips
 
 
A short video demonstrating the difference between a Jew and a Zionist.

Thoughts of Eminent Jewish Physicist, Dr. Hajo Meyer

IDF 5173, I suppose that you would also accuse this man of being a supporter of Dr. Goebbels???

And last but not least we have a short video showing the mentality of Zionists that run Israel today. These are the ratbags who claim to the world that Israel is treating Palestinians fairly.
The Zionist Mentality


As for your ludicrous statement
Quote:
Originally Posted by IDF_5173
Okay gentleman that was it, now I've said my opinion, so now it is time to get into cover for the incoming artillery fire.
All I can say is that you seriously overestimate yourself, your argument amost self destructs and it needs no more than the breeze of a passing mosquito to show it for what it is,.... very poor quality Zionist propaganda
January 14th, 2011  
zraver
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by IDF_5173
Hmmm!
With a great chance of being nominated as a Israeli version of Joseph Goebbels, then I would still say this:

Make no mistake. The Palestinians are still fighting to destroy Israel.
Wait what- who has the jets, bombs, tanks and multi-billion dollar military? Who is slowly but steadily taking more and more land in illegal mirco-invasions? Who has subdivided the West Bank into over 220 isolated ghettos most smaller than 2 square kilometers? Who gives recent arrivals from all over the world 350-450 liters of water a day, but only gives the natives 50-70 liters? Which [population is suffering 70% malnutrition and chronic ruinous unemployment?

Sorry, but when it comes to destruction israel is in no immedate danger.

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The primary obstacle to a peace agreement between Israel and the Palestinians is neither Jewish settlements, Palestinian refugees or the issue of future borders. The conflict has nothing to do with orcupation or security fence, but only with Arab reluctance to accept any Jewish sovereignty in any part of Palestine, however small the part may be.
That is incorrect, the Arab Peace Proposal was endorsed by 21 Arab states and the Palestinian Auhtority. The one sticking point relatign to the right of return is not specifically mentioned in the proposal and could likely be swapped for Jewish losses in the Jewish explusion.

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Only
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after Israel in 1967struck back an Arab war of aggression on three fronts and took control of Gaza and West Bank, began the Palestinian Arabs (who was now "Palestinians") to claim these areas. But the price - recognition of the Jewish state's right to exist - was too high.
The Palestinians were not a party to the 1967 war. The UN Partition plan was never recinded and relevant international treaties prevdent the aquisition of land through agressive war. As such only the UN and the Palestinian people have claim to the West Bank and Gaza.

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The Oslo
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process in the 1990s capsized when Arafat in the summer of 2000 rejected a plan that would have given Palestinians Gaza and almost all of the West Bank as a state with East Jerusalem as its capital. The reasion was that they were not prepared to recognize Jewish claim to parts of Jerusalem or would cede the right to flood Israel with the descendants of Palestinian refugees, which would eventually undermine Israel's Jewish identity. If you believe that the "moderate" leadership under Mahmoud Abbas has turned past intransigence you are wrong.
The plan was rightly rejected becuase Israel offered nothing of value. Under treaties Israel is party to, there is no isralei right to any land in the West Bank or Gaza (4GC III/49). Likewise Israel is in violation of the, UN Charter, UN Declaration of Human Rights, 4GC and the UN Covenant on Civil and Political Rights regarding preparing non-governing peoples for self rule and independence. Israel's actions in Gaza and the West Bank also meet the legal (not popular) definition of genocide. Finally Israeli military action often violates the laws and customs of war.

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By continuing
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to refuse to recognize any kind of Jewish connection to what the Jews for a millennia have considered their holiest place, by constantly working against the very core of two-state solution, namely the division of Palestine into both a Jewish and an Arab state , the Palestinian leadership blocks the peaceful solution that the vast majority of Israelis and presumably also the majority of Palestinians crave.
Utter falsehood, the Arab Peace proposal leaves Israel all of the land it had before June 4, 1967 including Jewish parts of Jerusalem and extends Israel formal peace and formal recognition.

The sticking point to peace is Israel's continued rejection of its legal treaty obligations and intenrational law.
February 20th, 2011  
O.W.E.G.
 
 
Acctually the land that Israel claims to own (by no right) is not even 80% safe and the last thing I remember is what happened in gaza by Hamas an in north Palestine (the country's real name
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May 16th, 2011  
84RFK
 
 
Gentlemen, I have a feeling of doubt wether or not the state of Israel really wants peace.

Historic facts shows us that the state of Israel has never actually gained anything from peace, unless it's a negotiated peace treaty, and so much more through war.

In fact, I'm not really sure that the state of Israel can function as a united entity without being surrounded by enemies, after all the endless state of war since the declearation of the state of Israel has served to bond it's population together for 63 years.
Despite the fact that the Israeli population consists of several different cultures, completely different ethnic groups, and a multitude of different languages, they have none the less managed to pull together in one direction.
And just face it, even though it is a Jewish state, Judaism has several different beliefs about what is the true way of the religion, and not all of these directions are able to speak together, not to mention aggree, on a daily basis.
And then we have the more secular jews...
So the cement binding the bricks of the foundations of Israel isn't so much the religion itself, as the constant threath of hostile neighbours.

That alone would suggest that peace isn't neccessarily the most favoured objective within Israeli politics.

Then we have the fact that any sort of "peace" would have to deal with the Palestine problem....
The Palestine territories today is in a kind of political limbo, and that is dynamite in itself, but the alternative could be worse.
If the Palestine territories should be recognized as an independent state, it would severly limit Israeli influence on their surroundings, ranging from different Islamic terrorist groups infiltrating the Palestine state and launching different kinds of attacks against Israel, to the simple fact that it makes Israeli retaliation against same terrorist groups a bit more complicated.

If the Palestine territories should be kept under som formal Israeli jurisdiction however, it would mean that Israel would have to assume some formal responsibility for it's citizens...maybe even accept them as Israeli citizens in the end.
That off course would be unthinkable, unacceptable, and could pose a serious threath to the democratic functions in Israel.
The alternative on the other hand would lead to a de facto "Apartheid-state" in every understanding of the word.

On that background, it seems like the best solution to keep the negotiations dragging along forever.

And the answer to this thread is simply, even if Israel did own the West-Bank, they will not assume the ownership of it.
June 8th, 2011  
GHR
 
 

Topic: The problem Israel


Is there a solution to the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians? Not in Israel, as long as Zionism is the national ideology.

An important part of Israel's rhetoric is to maintain the myth that "Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East." It is a premise which is helping to legitimize the aid to Israel and the state's treatment of Palestinians. The premise is supported by the popular idea of "clash of civilizations" that Western democracies are put under pressure by the (undemocratic) Muslim world and Israel here represents a democratic defense of the West. I would argue that the Western world is subject to a fraud and that the conflict can not be solved as long as Israel defines itself as "Jewish and democratic.

Israel operates basically undemocratic, exclusionary and expansionist to the large minority of non-Jews. The whole "land of Israel" must be fought at the expense of the Palestinian population both within Israel and the OccupiedTerritories. Code word: Jewishness and ethnic cleansing. Through governmental actions the Palestinian population is discriminated and subjected to racist abuse. They often live in a kind of ghettos in parts of what was the original Palestine, has Israeli citizenship and passport, but live as second class citizens. Together with Israel's oppressive 'campaign in the occupied territories, you will find a logical explanation for what is blocking a peaceful settlement to the conflict: Israel doesn’t want it.

The explanation is that the Israeli ethnocracy form of statehood, an ethno-religiously - not liberal - democracy not based on equality and equal rights for all its citizens. This particular form of democracy is undemocratic (decent democrats can surely agree that the concept of democracy includes all residents in a state?) and builds on the notion of the ideal Zionist, democratic state. It is 100 per cent. Jewish, exclusively inhabited by people with the same "blood and religion." Israel will never be able to include the Palestinians in this construction, since they don’t have the same "blood and religion." They are basically a foreign identity in the state, which from this perspective ideally includes all of Palestine - "Eretz Israel".

The Zionist forces in power in Israel today (religious forces rather than secular forces) are working on two longer-term goal of ethnic cleansing against the Palestinian people - both within Israel's borders and as far as possible in the West Bank. The goal is the establishment of a pure Jewish Eretz Israel (Land of Israel). In Israel, the Palestinians have Israeli citizenship and formal democratic rights. They have, for example, representatives in the Knesset. But they are being subjected to systematic persecution. They are not integrated or even assimilated, because they are not Jews.

Israel, in the short and longer term, has a demographic problem: a higher birthrate among Palestinians. How can they maintain the notion of a "Jewish democracy", whose majority is composed of non-Jews? It is something of an uncomfortable squeeze - also in relation to their surroundings. A Palestinian majority in Israel would certainly democratically manage to remove the non-democratic, ethnocractic elements in Israeli law and turn the country into a democracy for all.

Maybe, there earlier was from Israel, a willingness to put an end to the conflict, but today there are none. The solution must therefore come from outside. But a satisfactory solution, I believe, can only exist if Israel cancels Zionism as the national ideology - or are compelled to do so. A Zionist state can no more commit to peace with the Palestinians, as the South African apartheid regime could make peace with the native black population. But South Africa was finally forced to do so - by outside pressure, so then maybe..........!
June 8th, 2011  
Korean Seaboy
 
 
I agree with Israel's right to exist, but not its right to occupy Gaza, the West Bank, and its rights to wage war against its neighbors, nor its rights to settle on other countries' land
June 8th, 2011  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GHR
---snip---

Maybe, there earlier was from Israel, a willingness to put an end to the conflict, but today there are none. The solution must therefore come from outside. But a satisfactory solution, I believe, can only exist if Israel cancels Zionism as the national ideology - or are compelled to do so. A Zionist state can no more commit to peace with the Palestinians, as the South African apartheid regime could make peace with the native black population. But South Africa was finally forced to do so - by outside pressure, so then maybe..........!
There is little doubt that Israel has always wanted an end to the conflict with the Palestinians,... but only if the Palestinians forego all claims to their own land.
June 9th, 2011  
GHR
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
There is little doubt that Israel has always wanted an end to the conflict with the Palestinians,... but only if the Palestinians forego all claims to their own land.
Isn't there a word for it…? Could it be “Lebensraum” ...?
June 9th, 2011  
Prapor
 
 
I'm honestly divided as far as this conflict goes... I have Muslim friends, and even in my family. Many people I know sympathize with the Palestinians. At the same time, I also know how wrong terrorism is and how horrible, having grown up in North Caucasus.

I think the Palestinians have a right cause... But in a way, Israel does too. Both feel they are defending their land, their home. As to who is right, who knows? Where is the evidence for Israel's right to that land? In the Bible, which is in itself a piece of religious fiction. But then, that is true for the Palestinians too.






June 9th, 2011  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GHR
Isn't there a word for it…? Could it be “Lebensraum” ...?
If only you knew how many times I have commented YouTube vids with: "Israel = Zionist Lebensraum"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prapor
Where is the evidence for Israel's right to that land? In the Bible, which is in itself a piece of religious fiction. But then, that is true for the Palestinians too.
But the Palestinians don't use a religious fiction to claim ownership of the land, their claim lies in the fact that their ancestors have lived there, virtually since man first moved into the area, whereas the Jews for the most part have lived in Europe for the last 1200 years, and feel they have the right to just push the owners out and occupy the land on the basis of some mumbo jumbo that their priests made up a couple of thousand years ago.

I have often asked, "What would happen if I were to go the London and just occupy the property owned by my ancestors, beating harrassing and murdering anyone who resisted"? I would have my @rse handed to me on a plate.
 


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