Israel - Palestine : The truth (or not?)




 
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Israel - Palestine : The truth (or not?)
 
November 28th, 2011  
VDKMS
 

Topic: Israel - Palestine : The truth (or not?)


Israel - Palestine : The truth (or not?)
The reason why I start this new thread is because of the many (allmost all) off topic posts in the thread "Arabs in the Israeli army".
The Israel-Palestine conflict is a very complicated one with lots of truths, lies, deceptions and distortions. There are legal views, moral views an personal views.
When you "Google" about this topic you get an unbelievable amount of links and it is hard to to separate the men from the boys. Most of them are either pro or anti.

A greatly overlooked moment in this conflict is the personal ownership in the Ottoman Land Code of 1858. Personal ownership had two drawbacks for the landowners. Because it was registred they had to pay taxes and the males had to join the army (according to their age). Both the Jews and the Arabs (Palestinian) didn't liked it. A lot of Jews sold their properties and left. The Arabs (Palestinian) cheated. An older male was registered to have all the land so the younger onces could keep working the land as they used to. Unfortunately there were also crooks who got a lot of land. This went all well untill the end of the Ottoman empire and the start of the Jewish immigration. As you know, you can only buy land from someone who has the title of ownership. See the troubles comming? Arab (Palestinian) farmers who worked the land , sometimes for generations, had to leave because someone bought ,what they tought was their land, from the guy who had the title of ownership.

This was the start of a conflict that still isn't solved.

Please feel free to add important moments in this conflict.

And last but not least, read this before posting.

happy posting!
December 7th, 2011  
Del Boy
 
And I understand that masses of land was purchased by The Jewish Agency. Also that at one stage the Ottoman authority offered all of the region to The Zionist movement in exchange for support in the political backlash the Ottomans faced regarding the Armenian genocide; The Zionist movement refused to accept such a deal.
December 7th, 2011  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Del Boy
And I understand that masses of land was purchased by The Jewish Agency. Also that at one stage the Ottoman authority offered all of the region to The Zionist movement in exchange for support in the political backlash the Ottomans faced regarding the Armenian genocide; The Zionist movement refused to accept such a deal.
It's interesting to think about what the middle-east would look like if they would have accepted it.
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Israel - Palestine : The truth (or not?)
December 9th, 2011  
Del Boy
 
In previous days the region was described as a run-down dusty outpost of the Ottoman Empire.
December 21st, 2011  
mohamedwa
 
The conflict is because of historic and religious reasons for both sides....each claims that its their right to have the land and not the other side's right.....as an arab myself i believe that it belongs to us due to many reasons ( mainly because we were there first hehe ) ...ofcourse this is a BIG BIG TOPIC that can take hours in writing just 2 write it in brief
December 22nd, 2011  
RayManKiller3
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohamedwa
The conflict is because of historic and religious reasons for both sides....each claims that its their right to have the land and not the other side's right.....as an arab myself i believe that it belongs to us due to many reasons ( mainly because we were there first hehe ) ...ofcourse this is a BIG BIG TOPIC that can take hours in writing just 2 write it in brief

Arabs were there first? I can not find anything stating Arabs were there before the Jews (Israel). As far as I know Israel existed (and was destroyed) before the Arabs came there... So technically they were there first.

I don't really care for the Palestinian claims of the whole of Palestine, as I see Israel as a sovereign nation. Any interference from the U.N (telling them to give the whole of Palestine to Palestinians) would be pressing against their right to rule their own country. Not only that, but it would be Indian giving. U.N itself gave Israel its country, you can't just take back what you give someone without pissing people off.

As long as they do not become like Gaddafi, I see no reason to remove them.
December 22nd, 2011  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayManKiller3
Arabs were there first? I can not find anything stating Arabs were there before the Jews (Israel). As far as I know Israel existed (and was destroyed) before the Arabs came there... So technically they were there first.
It is well known that the land was originally inhabited by the Canaanites from about 3000BCE, the descendants of whom intermixed with later Moslem invaders. They are today's Palestinian Arabs, the Jews never arrived until c.1800 BCE. So unless the jews have developed a new mathematical system, there is no possible way that they preceded the ancestors of today's Palestinian Arabs.

Before the Hebrews first migrated there around 1800 B.C., the land of Canaan was occupied by Canaanites.
“Between 3000 and 1100 B.C., Canaanite civilization covered what is today Israel, the West Bank, Lebanon and much of Syria and Jordan...Those who remained in the Jerusalem hills after the Romans expelled the Jews [in the second century A.D.] were a potpourri: farmers and vineyard growers, pagans and converts to Christianity, descendants of the Arabs, Persians, Samaritans, Greeks and old Canaanite tribes.” Marcia Kunstel and Joseph Albright, “Their Promised Land.”
The present-day Palestinians’ ancestral heritage

“But all these [different peoples who had come to Canaan] were additions, sprigs grafted onto the parent tree...And that parent tree was Canaanite...[The Arab invaders of the 7th century A.D.] made Moslem converts of the natives, settled down as residents, and intermarried with them, with the result that all are now so completely Arabized that we cannot tell where the Canaanites leave off and the Arabs begin.” Illene Beatty, “Arab and Jew in the Land of Canaan.”

The Jewish kingdoms were only one of many periods in ancient Palestine.

“The extended kingdoms of David and Solomon, on which the Zionists base their territorial demands, endured for only about 73 years...Then it fell apart...[Even] if we allow independence to the entire life of the ancient Jewish kingdoms, from David’s conquest of Canaan in 1000 B.C. to the wiping out of Judah in 586 B.C., we arrive at [only] a 414 year Jewish rule.” Illene Beatty, “Arab and Jew in the Land of Canaan.”[/quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayManKiller3
I don't really care for the Palestinian claims of the whole of Palestine, as I see Israel as a sovereign nation. Any interference from the U.N (telling them to give the whole of Palestine to Palestinians) would be pressing against their right to rule their own country. Not only that, but it would be Indian giving. U.N itself gave Israel its country, you can't just take back what you give someone without pissing people off.
Once again,... no one cares what you would like or "care for" we are dealing with the facts. The first of which is: "Indian giving" is a term found in the school yard and not a term widely used in either diplomacy nor Law, the return of stolen property is not "Indian giving". If you are worried about "p!ssing people off" you'd better start remembering that the Palestinians have been getting p!ssed off for over a century.
Ahhh yes,... but that's "different", isn't it??
 


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