Israel Got Him

VDKMS......You state that it was Israel that was the victim when the state was set up in 1947, if so then why were millions of Palestinian disposed and driven from the country. Are you saying it the Christian element that is setting up settlements in Palestinian land and are still driving them out. There are groups of armed Jewish settlers that will go and take a section of Palestinian land by force and if they run into trouble they call upon the Israeli army for protection and the army will sort them out. This happens hundreds of time every year and now they have taken over nearly all the west bank.
 
Cartman......Didn't Syria fire a few shells into the Golan heights which technically is still Syrian territory which has been anex by Israel
 
VDKMS......You state that it was Israel that was the victim when the state was set up in 1947, if so then why were millions of Palestinian disposed and driven from the country. Are you saying it the Christian element that is setting up settlements in Palestinian land and are still driving them out. There are groups of armed Jewish settlers that will go and take a section of Palestinian land by force and if they run into trouble they call upon the Israeli army for protection and the army will sort them out. This happens hundreds of time every year and now they have taken over nearly all the west bank.

we didnt drive them out, arab leaders called them to leave the land and wait untill they destroy us. but as we all know they didnt succeed, and now they are stuck with millions of refugees who werent even here when it all happened !!
let me explain you something about the golan heights, in the six days war israel advanced further into syria, we conquered the golan heights but only in 1981 (or 83') israel has officialy annexed the golan heights. much like the west bank (who were jordan's territory) israel has succesfully conquered the area and settled there. i see in your description you served in israel.. can you tell me when and why?
 
you just shown how stupid and ignorent you are.... why dont you come to israel or gaza and support the palestinians if you love them so much?

Look you cretin,... stop reading into what I say only what you want hear. Please quote one sentence anywhere on this Forum or anywhere else where I said I love, or even like the Palestinians.
I support them as I would have supported the french Maquis against the Nazis. I don't go anywhere near your sh!thole of a country because I can do more good where I am.

I say again: "It is because of idiots like yourself who drag the name of Jewry down to the level of the Nazis that Anti Semitism is on the rise world wide. Again Jews, per se, find themselves distrusted and despised around the world and with good reason".

Now you will have to do without me for a few days as in an hour or two I am going to a family reunion interstate.
 
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VDKMS......You state that it was Israel that was the victim when the state was set up in 1947, if so then why were millions of Palestinian disposed and driven from the country. Are you saying it the Christian element that is setting up settlements in Palestinian land and are still driving them out. There are groups of armed Jewish settlers that will go and take a section of Palestinian land by force and if they run into trouble they call upon the Israeli army for protection and the army will sort them out. This happens hundreds of time every year and now they have taken over nearly all the west bank.

You forget the Oslo accords. It tells who has jurisdiction over what and where. Almost all Palestinians fall under the PA. You are grossly exaggerating about the violence of the settlers. It does happen but many settlers are being attacked by Palestinians too. Did you know that a lot of the "uprooting" of olive trees is done by Palestinians themselves so they get compensated by the Israeli government? Do you know how many europeans are being harrased by fanatic muslims because they won't sell their property in a muslim neighbourhood? See, it is not only in Palestine that radical muslims behave like that, it is all over the world the same f.....g thing. Look at the world of today and have a look at all the violence. Are the Jews violent in the USA, Europe, Asia etc.? No. But there is trouble with fanatical muslims everywhere. Europe, Asia, Africa, you name it. All in the name of Islam. Do not get me wrong, I have nothing against a muslim but I do have a big problem with a muslim who forces his religious lifestyle upon others. Jews do not force their religious lifestyle upon anyone.

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When the first Zionists came to the Ottoman Empire (late 19th century) they went to the province Sandschak Küdüs-i Sherif (approx nowadays Israel, there was no Palestine and most people called themselves Syrians) and their goal was a Jewish homeland ruled by a Jewish majority. They were not violent they just wanted to buy land. They did not force anyone to sell his land and gave good prices for those who did. It was the Arabs who threathend those who wanted to sell their property to the Jews, some got even killed for that (in todays Palestine you still get the death sentence for selling property to a Jew!). Who's the criminal: the one who buys a property or the one who kills the seller?


Zionism in the Ottoman Empire at the End of the 19th century.
 
If (and that is a bloody big "if") it is true that Palestinians uproot their own olive groves for "compensation", this is the reason why: It is better perhaps to get some (no doubt unfair) compensation rather than just let them bulldoze their olive groves as would happen anyway.

The trial of Neta Golan and Shelly Nativ, Israeli citizens and members of the International Solidarity Movement, opened this morning in Hashalom court house in Kfar Saba. The two are accused of blocking IDF bulldozers in the village Dir Istya near Salfit to prevent them from uprooting Palestinian olive trees. Golan and Nativ are charged with interfering with police work, interfering with a public servant’s work (the bulldozer driver) and disobeying a decree of “closed military zone”.
The incident happened near the beginning of the recent Intifada, in April 2001, when IDF forces had begun to uproot the olive groves of Deir Istya. Neta Golan and Shelly Nativ were part of a group of international and Israeli peace activists who traveled to Deir Istya on invitation from the villagers. The activists chained themselves to the trees an hour before the bulldozers arrived to uproot olive trees. The destruction of trees was halted only at the last moment when the blades of the bulldozers were very close to the chained activists bodies.
Another case of Jews who realise the truth of the matter and are willing to make a sacrifice to help see justice is done. One can only imagine what the outcome would have been had these two activists been Palestinians, they would have suffered the same fate as Rachel Corrie.

I Googled "Palestinians sell olive groves" and never found a mention, however I Googled "Bulldoze Olive groves" and found plenty, all relating to Israeli theft of Palestinian farmer's land.
 
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VDKMS......You state that the Jewish settlers were not violent, if this is fact then why did they attack the British troops there during WW2 while trying to force Britain into giving them self rule then rather than after war. Extra troops had to be sent there to keep the peace rather than fighting the Germans
 
I say again: "It is because of idiots like yourself who drag the name of Jewry down to the level of the Nazis that Anti Semitism is on the rise world wide. Again Jews, per se, find themselves distrusted and despised around the world and with good reason".

I am not sure this the entirely true, I think what you are seeing is not anti-Semitism on the rise but rather anti-Israeli feeling and I do think people are beginning to see the difference between the two.
I know that in New Zealand most of the anti-Israeli feeling comes from the fact that we keep catching them stealing passports etc. but that tends to manifest itself in attacks on Jewish cemeteries etc. which I think is misconstrued as anti-Jewish.

you just shown how stupid and ignorent you are.... why dont you come to israel or gaza and support the palestinians if you love them so much? have you been here before?

The wife spent a year in Israel and hated every minute of it, I really cant tell you what she thought of the people she worked with especially the males as that would lead to a banning but interestingly enough when she returned she decided she was more Catholic than Jewish.

As for a visit to Gaza well not sure that is on the cards but with luck we will be going to Egypt and Jordan in the next couple of years and if I could get in and have a look I would happily do so then I could post the pictures of your handy work here first hand.
 
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one side put forward a statement that the other side didnt like

basically

I think you have to understand that in this argument there is no room for a middle ground, if you believe Israel is right then you have to conclude that the Palestinians are terrorists and if you believe that the Palestinians have a case then Israel really has no right to exist.

The notion that you can sit on the fence in this one just does not work.
 
Lets put it this right that I believe that both sides have the right to live in Peace. The Israelis should be free from threat from Muslims in that area, and the Palestinians should be able to live in peace on soil that they own and not pushed of by Jewish settlers.
 
Or you could accept the historical reality in which we live. Israel does exist and by that virtue alone has the right to continue to do so. In hindsight it should not have been created but that can't exactly be undone can it... So both Palestine and Israel have a right to exist. Palestinians need to stop firing rockets etc. Israel needs to stop expanding and say return the land that it has obtained in the last 10 years ?




All this needs to be hammered out through brutal international pressure. Simply whining about how Israel should never have existed doesn't address the issue that it does exist. And is recognised internationally as a nation and had the rights of a nation. Such as the right to defend it citizens. Regardless of how historically justified the attacks against its citizens may seem. ( not saying that attacking civilians is justified but that the Palestinians do have legitimate grievances)....


So no I don't think that it is correct to say that there is no middle ground . There has to be or there will be no workable solution. The middle ground is the only ground that actually deals with the reality of the situation.
 
Or you could accept the historical reality in which we live. Israel does exist and by that virtue alone has the right to continue to do so. In hindsight it should not have been created but that can't exactly be undone can it... So both Palestine and Israel have a right to exist. Palestinians need to stop firing rockets etc. Israel needs to stop expanding and say return the land that it has obtained in the last 10 years ?

All this needs to be hammered out through brutal international pressure. Simply whining about how Israel should never have existed doesn't address the issue that it does exist. And is recognised internationally as a nation and had the rights of a nation. Such as the right to defend it citizens. Regardless of how historically justified the attacks against its citizens may seem. ( not saying that attacking civilians is justified but that the Palestinians do have legitimate grievances)....


So no I don't think that it is correct to say that there is no middle ground . There has to be or there will be no workable solution. The middle ground is the only ground that actually deals with the reality of the situation.

Not true, the problem exists that once you accept the Palestinian argument then you also have to accept that Israel is an illegitimate country built on stolen land and it does not matter how long you hold stolen property it never becomes yours.

As I have said it does not matter which side you back there is no middle ground, this does not mean some form of compromise can not be achieved but the reality is that neither side is really looking for one, Israel still thinks it can bomb its way to legitimacy and the Palestinians still want to go home.
 
Here we go with the historical reality i.e. what actually happened ... If the argument is that Israel is formed on stolen land (in it's entirety some of it undeniably is stolen) and that there was no formation of Israel it was just "stolen". Is a delusional line of argument as far as international law is concerned. Israel as a nation was formed by the UN and the land was owned by the British. This forms the legal basis for Israel's sovereignty. If that is the Palestinians argument it is very poor. Although if I were in their situation that is probably how I would see it too. Legally (initially) there wasn't any stealing of a nation.


So really you can't accept the Palestinian argument as you portray it as it isn't true.
 
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Here we go with the historical reality i.e. what actually happened ... If the argument is that Israel is formed on stolen land (in it's entirety some of it undeniably is stolen) and that there was no formation of Israel it was just "stolen". Is a delusional line of argument as far as international law is concerned. Israel as a nation was formed by the UN and the land was owned by the British. This forms the legal basis for Israel's sovereignty. If that is the Palestinians argument it is very poor. Although if I were in their situation that is probably how I would see it too. Legally (initially) there wasn't any stealing of a nation.


So really you can't accept the Palestinian argument as you portray it as it isn't true.

That may be the case if Britain ever owned "Palestine" however technically the British mandate was only to administer the region an occupied region of the former Ottoman empire.

Britain no more owned Palestine than the manager of your local supermarket owns the chain and as such was not theirs or the UNs to give away.

This can be validated by the fact that the territory was designated as an "occupied enemy territory" after WW1.
 
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A Palestinian baby who was killed by wolfish Israeli soldiers yesterday.

http://www.tabnak.ir/fa/news/285814/عکسی-که-اشک-نخست-وزیر-مصر-را-درآورد

This is the real mean of terrorist. I don't know when Arab countries with this population, worth and large and strategic lands wake up from their deep sleep.

we are the terrorist? well another funny joke... that kid was near hamas weapons, IAF doesnt just send rockets into civilian population without aiming or having a target (that sounds familier doesnt it?). and israel doesnt prevent the exit of reporters and diplomats out of gaza strip to use them as "human shields". in this operation civilian casualties has been minimalized but there is always going to be a civilian casualty when the terrorists use them as cover for their weapons and bases.... i cant wait to see if Egypt even dares to do something about this, thats the problem with you muslims, its really easy for you to talk and threaten but when it comes to actually doing it, you fail every single time.

you can keep lying to yourself by saying its a stolen land and we doesnt have the right to exist, but why dont you actually look at what really happened and try to understand?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63hTOaRu7h4"]Prager University: The Middle East Problem - YouTube[/ame]
 
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