ISIS Threatens to Invade Jordan, 'Slaughter' King Abdullah

I think a 3 state solution is a recipe for disaster at this point because it guarantees that these "states" will be at each others throats for the foreseeable future as proxies of the bigger states in the area. Sunni's, Shi'a, and Kurds have been living side by side in this region for 1400 years or more, what they need is solid leadership, not a sweeping of the problems down the road...

They have been killing each other since day one you mean.. There is absolutely no feeling about being an "Iraqi" really.
In a country where tribal and religious leaderships are where the power resides any idea about a political system joining all groups in a federal system will fail I fear.
Only the gulf royals have that kind of authority history shows us.
 
I think a 3 state solution is a recipe for disaster at this point because it guarantees that these "states" will be at each others throats for the foreseeable future as proxies of the bigger states in the area. Sunni's, Shi'a, and Kurds have been living side by side in this region for 1400 years or more, what they need is solid leadership, not a sweeping of the problems down the road...

One of the main reason I presented this was the constant and consistent failure of the Maliki led government. If you read the entire tread you'll see that I presented the reason why Maliki doomed both the government and the military to failure. I imagine your well aware of this, probable better than me.
As mentioned "perhaps Haider al-Abadi will appoint logical - skillful bipartisan individuals to power both in civilian and military post". So I was not disagreeing with you. However anything is better than an IS dominated Iraq. They are one of the worse group of murdering thugs to come on the scene in some time and up until just recently were advancing rabidly.
 
Today I heard some unreliable news that ISIS has done some operation in the north-west of Iran. Sunni Kurds live in that part of Iran and ISIS has some fans in Sunni people.
 
They have been killing each other since day one you mean.. There is absolutely no feeling about being an "Iraqi" really.
In a country where tribal and religious leaderships are where the power resides any idea about a political system joining all groups in a federal system will fail I fear.
Only the gulf royals have that kind of authority history shows us.


Killing is not exclusive to the people of the Middle East. The rest of the world has been doing it quite a bit more effectively for quite some time. Sunni, Shia, and Kurd have all intermarried (to include Christians) and lived together for a very long time. They certainly can make it happen as long as extremists aren't prevalent to take advantage of any disenfranchised portion of the population.

It can work if everyone has a say. Perhaps what Monty B prescribed in a 3 state autonomous area with a central government which would guarantee power being shared. However, it would have to likely be kick started by a charismatic and level headed leader that truly had the countries best interest at heart.

If it is actually just a 3 state solution where they are independent, I fear they will each be locked in a bloody game of rock, paper, scissors while the surrounding powers keep the coals hot in order to prevent the fire from moving into their borders. None of the surrounding powers want a successful, strong, unified Iraq because it would temper the balance of power and weaken their spheres of influence.
 
Today I heard some unreliable news that ISIS has done some operation in the north-west of Iran. Sunni Kurds live in that part of Iran and ISIS has some fans in Sunni people.


I am beginning to think ISIS is becoming the "go to" word for any form of terrorism these days just as Al Qaeda has been for the last 15 years, 2002 if in doubt Al Qaeda did it, 2014 if in doubt ISIS did it.

One thing I will guarantee though is that if governments in the region were more inclusive of their people as a whole there would be a lot less "terrorism" to deal with.
 
I am beginning to think ISIS is becoming the "go to" word for any form of terrorism these days just as Al Qaeda has been for the last 15 years, 2002 if in doubt Al Qaeda did it, 2014 if in doubt ISIS did it.

One thing I will guarantee though is that if governments in the region were more inclusive of their people as a whole there would be a lot less "terrorism" to deal with.

I disagree the IS or ISIS as it was called is presently an issue and is specific to Syria and Iraq. Although their stated goals include the entire middle east and they were originally composed of many fighter - terrorist from abroad. So if they try to make inroads in Iran it wouldn't surprise me. They are a completely separate organization (and not to be confused) with other terrorist organizations such as Hezbollah and present day Al Qaeda to name just a few.

As for the inclusive nature of the main government if you bother to read the entire thread this issue is explained in detail. To reiterate in brief the Maliki led government created this issue by appointing Shiite lackeys in military and civilian positions thus leaving out most of the key individuals how knew how to do the job which also resulted in poor morale. As a result the Iraq army disintegrated (at least to an extend) leaving much of the modern American made weaponry in the hands of the IS, thus giving them an advantage over their adversaries. It also allowed them to take over some of Iraq's rich oil fields providing them with a strong independent source of revenue.

Now forum members have stated that Iraq would be better under central leadership. An idea for which I agree and as I mentioned with the new president Haider al-Abadi this may eventually be possible? However presently the IS still appears to hold the trump card militarily and without US serous participation, not just 4 jets dropping bombs, but perhaps a relentless attack of waves of bombings on a daily biases (which Obama has stated won't happen) this could prove to be a difficult boots on the ground real world solution.
 
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I disagree the IS or ISIS as it was called is presently an issue and is specific to Syria and Iraq. Although their stated goals include the entire middle east and they were originally composed of many fighter - terrorist from abroad. So if they try to make inroads in Iran it wouldn't surprise me. They are a completely separate organization (and not to be confused) with other terrorist organizations such as Hezbollah and present day Al Qaeda to name just a few.

As for the inclusive nature of the main government if you bother to read the entire thread this issue is explained in detail. To reiterate in brief the Maliki led government created this issue by appointing Shiite lackeys in military and civilian positions thus leaving out most of the key individuals how knew how to do the job which also resulted in poor morale.

I think you missed the post I was replying to as it was a reply to Hamidreza's message and nothing more.
Originally Posted by hamidreza
Today I heard some unreliable news that ISIS has done some operation in the north-west of Iran. Sunni Kurds live in that part of Iran and ISIS has some fans in Sunni people.



 
I am beginning to think ISIS is becoming the "go to" word for any form of terrorism these days just as Al Qaeda has been for the last 15 years, 2002 if in doubt Al Qaeda did it, 2014 if in doubt ISIS did it.

One thing I will guarantee though is that if governments in the region were more inclusive of their people as a whole there would be a lot less "terrorism" to deal with.
As I said in my previous posts ISIS has some fans in Islamic states or it is better to say in Sunni states. 2 or 3 months ago it was estimated that they are 10000 to 15000 fighters but the last and new estimation is 50000 fighters. They are trying their best to find and bring their fans from Islamic states to middle east and till now they have been successful. Some people in Islamic states see them as hero who are trying to save Islam world.
3 weeks ago some of young people in Kurd cities of Iran were seen moving ISIS flags in their hands. one week ago a group of them were arrested in the Iran-Iraq border trying to join ISIS.
ISIS is doing much better than Al-Qaeda to absorb fighters from world even from Europe states. They use internet very good and their quick victory in Iraq and Syria and fighting in several deploy with several enemy ( Syria Army, Syria Free army, Al-nosra, Hezbollah and other slamic groups in Syria and Iraq Army, Kurds, Iranians, Shia groups fighters and US in Iraq ) makes them popular between some Muslim young people.
 
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As I said in my previous posts ISIS has some fans in Islamic states or it is better to say in Sunni states. 2 or 3 months ago it was estimated that they are 10000 to 15000 fighters but the last and new estimation is 50000 fighters. They are trying their best to find and bring their fans from Islamic states to middle east and till now they have been successful. Some people in Islamic states see them as hero who are trying to save Islam world.

I am kind of torn on this one as on one hand I don't want to see ISIS get so strong that they are a serious challenge to a stable nation but on the other hand I like the idea of all the religious whackjobs signing up with them so that they will be removed from our society and eventually die for some pointless cause.
The important thing is that we find a way to ensure that they don't come home as the last thing we want is them infesting our prisons, I would sooner they just die anonymously in Syria or Iraq and I am quite happy to assist those nations in removing them from the gene pool.

3 weeks ago some of young people in Kurd cities of Iran were seen moving ISIS flags in their hands. one week ago a group of them were arrested in the Iran-Iraq border trying to join ISIS.
ISIS is doing much better than Al-Qaeda to absorb fighters from world even from Europe states. They use internet very good and their quick victory in Iraq and Syria and fighting in several deploy with several enemy ( Syria Army, Syria Free army, Al-nosra, Hezbollah and other slamic groups in Syria and Iraq Army, Kurds, Iranians, Shia groups fighters and US in Iraq ) makes them popular between some Muslim young people.
I don't agree until it decided it was going to go toe to toe with the US military Al Qaeda was very effective at building its forces, staying just under the radar and still carrying out attacks where as ISIS has popped up on the scene pissed on every ones cornflakes and is now well on the way to being bombed into oblivion.

I honestly do not see a way forward for ISIS and believe it to be essentially a spent force, sure it still has a lot of firepower and will take time to destroy but destruction is its only future as no one will ever accept it as a state.
 
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IS further

As I said in my previous posts ISIS has some fans in Islamic states or it is better to say in Sunni states. 2 or 3 months ago it was estimated that they are 10000 to 15000 fighters but the last and new estimation is 50000 fighters. They are trying their best to find and bring their fans from Islamic states to middle east and till now they have been successful. Some people in Islamic states see them as hero who are trying to save Islam world.
3 weeks ago some of young people in Kurd cities of Iran were seen moving ISIS flags in their hands. one week ago a group of them were arrested in the Iran-Iraq border trying to join ISIS.
ISIS is doing much better than Al-Qaeda to absorb fighters from world even from Europe states. They use internet very good and their quick victory in Iraq and Syria and fighting in several deploy with several enemy ( Syria Army, Syria Free army, Al-nosra, Hezbollah and other slamic groups in Syria and Iraq Army, Kurds, Iranians, Shia groups fighters and US in Iraq ) makes them popular between some Muslim young people.


As mentioned many of ISIS fighters – terrorist come from abroad. However Iranian Kurds wow that’s strange bedfellows after the recent warfare between ISIS and the Iraqi Kurds. On one hand they may look attractive to young people due to their radical nature. However it is this same radical nature that could eventually be their undoing. Many Sunni’s who initially welcomed the ISIS have found they don’t want to live under the religious law and tyrannical rule of the ISIS.
 
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Sometimes you can go back and point at a particular decision as the source of enormous problems, the decision to dissolve the Iraqi Baath army was such a decisions most agree on.. It have provided all kinds of sunni militants with military vets and former high ranking military commanders since day one apart from plans for warfare within Iraq.
 
I am kind of torn on this one as on one hand I don't want to see ISIS get so strong that they are a serious challenge to a stable nation but on the other hand I like the idea of all the religious whackjobs signing up with them so that they will be removed from our society and eventually die for some pointless cause.
The important thing is that we find a way to ensure that they don't come home as the last thing we want is them infesting our prisons, I would sooner they just die anonymously in Syria or Iraq and I am quite happy to assist those nations in removing them from the gene pool.
Maybe killing the criminal terrorists is a good job but do u think killing 50000 or 500000 or even 5 million of them will solve the radical extremist problem in the world?

I don't agree until it decided it was going to go toe to toe with the US military Al Qaeda was very effective at building its forces, staying just under the radar and still carrying out attacks where as ISIS has popped up on the scene pissed on every ones cornflakes and is now well on the way to being bombed into oblivion.

I honestly do not see a way forward for ISIS and believe it to be essentially a spent force, sure it still has a lot of firepower and will take time to destroy but destruction is its only future as no one will ever accept it as a state.
Accidentally I read news that approves my saying about ISIS. The head of Germany's domestic intelligence agency said that the number of young people who like ISIS is more than Al-Qaeda fans . I think it is for three reason:
1 . ISIS know how to use internet well.
2 . Their Violence, extremism make them more popular than Al-Qaeda.
3 . Their quick victories
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ality-says-german-security-chief-9702661.html
 
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As mentioned many of ISIS fighters – terrorist come from abroad. However Iranian Kurds wow that’s strange bedfellows after the recent warfare between ISIS and the Iraqi Kurds. On one hand they may look attractive to young people due to their radical nature. However it is this same radical nature that could eventually be their undoing. Many Sunni’s who initially welcomed the ISIS have found they don’t want to live under the religious law and tyrannical rule of the ISIS.
You think Kurds are a union nation but it is wrong. in Iran-Iraq war time we supported Iraq's Kurds against Saddam and Saddam supported Iran Kurds against Iran and both of two kurds wanted independence at that time for Kurds! Now in Iraq they are two groups, Barezani and Talebani, who are rival. Also Iraq kurds have good relation with turkey because there are a lot of advantages for them for example selling their oil but at the same time Turkey kurds are fighting against Turkey for independence! and you add to this collection some extremist and Islamist Kurds who are against all of these Kurds groups.
They don't know what they are doing and what they want! In fact most of ME people have the same condition.
 
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A picture of Iran Army in north-east of Iraq. Iran sent her troops to prevent ISIS to be near the Iran borders. in fact our first defensive line is in Iraq.

96511729298220959425.jpg
 
Maybe killing the criminal terrorists is a good job but do u think killing 50000 or 500000 or even 5 million of them will solve the radical extremist problem in the world?

Yes I do, I say the more the merrier in fact.
If the end result of joining groups who's only ambition in life is to kill anyone that opposes them is a rapid death then no matter how much PR they put out they will struggle to find anything but dead end recruits.

But more importantly for the world having all these psychotic nutjobs in one place slowing being killed off is far preferable to them wandering the streets of nations plotting their own little jihads.

I am sorry but there is nothing in me that says I should have some sympathy for the likes of Al Qaeda or ISIS and the sooner they and their followers are wiped from the face of the earth the better we will all be.

Accidentally I read news that approves my saying about ISIS. The head of Germany's domestic intelligence agency said that the number of young people who like ISIS is more than Al-Qaeda fans . I think it is for three reason:
1 . ISIS know how to use internet well.
2 . Their Violence, extremism make them more popular than Al-Qaeda.
3 . Their quick victories
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ality-says-german-security-chief-9702661.html

This may well be true but being the most popular bunch of psychopaths on the block only lasts as long as you are achieving things now that things are not going their way lets see how long that popularity lasts.
ISIS is extremely lucky that the Iraqi military are such a joke or they would be yesterdays news by now.
 
Get rid of them

Monty's right their popularity certainly doesn't justify the murderous existence of these psychopathic thugs. The best thing that can happen is to send them on their way to martyrdom ASAP. Just think how the average people of Iraq and Syria: Sunnis, Shiites and Christians have suffered. When they have fallen under the ISIS's umbrella.
Also they came on the scene in Syria when Assad had already been weakened offering supposedly needed assistance to the repels, then they have been able to take advantage of the power vacuum in Iraq created by al-Maliki government, thus leaving the departing Iraq's army weaponry in their hands. So they have been very fortunate to date.
BTW: Many Germans jumped at the chance to join the SS and Soviets at the chance to be in the NKVD and KGB. Did this justify their murdering of 10's of millions?
 
Monty's right their popularity certainly doesn't justify the murderous existence of these psychopathic thugs. The best thing that can happen is to send them on their way to martyrdom ASAP. Just think how the average people of Iraq and Syria: Sunnis, Shiites and Christians have suffered. When they have fallen under the ISIS's umbrella.
Also they came on the scene in Syria when Assad had already been weakened offering supposedly needed assistance to the repels, then they have been able to take advantage of the power vacuum in Iraq created by al-Maliki government, thus leaving the departing Iraq's army weaponry in their hands. So they have been very fortunate to date.
BTW: Many Germans jumped at the chance to join the SS and Soviets at the chance to be in the NKVD and KGB. Did this justify their murdering of 10's of millions?

I don't disagree with exterminating them, but we do need to address the underlying problems why why people turn to radicalism (lack of freedom, poverty, etc). Otherwise we will be fighting radicals forever. Radicalism is a symptom of a underlying problem elsewhere.

Look where ISIS got started Syria and Iraq, two countries where Sunnis where oppressed. Being oppressed is the very environment that breeds radicalism.

Do you know why things calmed down in Northern Ireland? Its because there was ultimately a diplomatic solution, it wasn't ended by war. If there had been no peace they'd still be killing each other.
 
I don't disagree with exterminating them, but we do need to address the underlying problems why why people turn to radicalism (lack of freedom, poverty, etc). Otherwise we will be fighting radicals forever. Radicalism is a symptom of a underlying problem elsewhere.

Look where ISIS got started Syria and Iraq, two countries where Sunnis where oppressed. Being oppressed is the very environment that breeds radicalism.

Do you know why things calmed down in Northern Ireland? Its because there was ultimately a diplomatic solution, it wasn't ended by war. If there had been no peace they'd still be killing each other.

One thing that would help would be an all inclusive central government, not one loaded with lackeys such as you had Iraq or an dictator as you had in Syria "Assad". Both countries had Sunni rebellion "where they were basically left out of the decision making process" then allowed ISIS in only to be sorry later.
 
I don't disagree with exterminating them, but we do need to address the underlying problems why why people turn to radicalism (lack of freedom, poverty, etc). Otherwise we will be fighting radicals forever. Radicalism is a symptom of a underlying problem elsewhere.

Look where ISIS got started Syria and Iraq, two countries where Sunnis where oppressed. Being oppressed is the very environment that breeds radicalism.

Do you know why things calmed down in Northern Ireland? Its because there was ultimately a diplomatic solution, it wasn't ended by war. If there had been no peace they'd still be killing each other.

In normal situations I would agree but ISIS seems to be one of those groups that you just cant reason with to quote another dangerous man you are "either with them or against them" there is no in between.

I will agree that the root causes which have allowed ISIS to come about need to be addressed but ISIS themselves have to be destroyed before any progress will be made.

As for Iraq and Syria I still argue that the best course of action in Iraq is 3 separate provinces based on factional lines with their own local governments from which a federal government is chosen on an equal numbers basis to run the country.

With Syria the west should deal with Assad to help end the civil war as like it or not he is the only one with functioning government that is not riddled with extremists however Assad himself has to go, he can take his family and billions in ill gotten gains and leave peacefully for all I care but he has to go.
 
I think Syria is already totally divided along sectarian lines.. The Alawites, Shiites and Christians support Assad, the Sunnis anyone but Assad.
The Kurds support themselves mostly, oddly enough that makes them the most reliable group to deal with.
 
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