Iraq's Legacy of Terror: Mass Graves




 
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Boots
 
April 30th, 2005  
Charge 7
 
 

Topic: Iraq's Legacy of Terror: Mass Graves


Say what you want about WMDs. This savagery is reason enough for me to have put an end to Saddam.

Quote:
Since the Saddam Hussein regime was overthrown in May, 270 mass graves have been reported. By mid-January, 2004, the number of confirmed sites climbed to fifty-three. Some graves hold a few dozen bodies—their arms lashed together and the bullet holes in the backs of skulls testimony to their execution. Other graves go on for hundreds of meters, densely packed with thousands of bodies.

"We've already discovered just so far the remains of 400,000 people in mass graves," said British Prime Minister Tony Blair on November 20 in London. The United Nations, the U.S. State Department, Amnesty International, and Human Rights Watch (HRW) all estimate that Saddam Hussein's regime murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent people. "Human Rights Watch estimates that as many as 290,000 Iraqis have been 'disappeared' by the Iraqi government over the past two decades," said the group in a statement in May. "Many of these 'disappeared' are those whose remains are now being unearthed in mass graves all over Iraq."
More...

http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/legacyofterror.html
April 30th, 2005  
7.62
 
 
The dirty . I've heard of a few thousand dead but 400,000.......you just don't hear about this in the news.
April 30th, 2005  
Charge 7
 
 
"We didn't find WMDs" seems to be a catchier headline than "We found hundreds of thousands of graves".
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Boots
April 30th, 2005  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7.62
The dirty . I've heard of a few thousand dead but 400,000.......you just don't hear about this in the news.
I would be very loathe to read too much into it yet, one of the reasons it is not making the mainstream news agencies is that it is not backed by any independant verification.

I personally dont tend to put much stock into the claims of aid organisation and politicians as they are invariably slanted toward meeting their own goals, so while I am not saying the numbers are inaccurate I would be more inclined to wait until a more credible/impartial verification happens.

For the record the only stats I have seen from what I consider credible records put the number at between 100000 and 290000 (which is still not an insignificant amount) but considerably lower than 400000.
May 1st, 2005  
Charge 7
 
 
Yeah what's a 100,000 people more or less.

Oh, and it has made the mainstream news. CNN was onsite today of one mass grave holding 1500 Kurds - all but 5 of them women and children. That's just one mass grave. They've counted over 75 confirmed so far and possibly hundreds more yet to be confirmed.
May 2nd, 2005  
Jack_Mordino
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7.62
The dirty . I've heard of a few thousand dead but 400,000.......you just don't hear about this in the news.
Heh, that's about the number of citizens killed by the U.S. bombs in the first Iraqi war. But the CNN never discloses such kinds of figures. Shhhhhhhh..........
May 2nd, 2005  
03USMC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_Mordino
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7.62
The dirty . I've heard of a few thousand dead but 400,000.......you just don't hear about this in the news.
Heh, that's about the number of citizens killed by the U.S. bombs in the first Iraqi war. But the CNN never discloses such kinds of figures. Shhhhhhhh..........

Care to back that up with some hard figures or a link?
May 2nd, 2005  
DTop
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_Mordino
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7.62
The dirty . I've heard of a few thousand dead but 400,000.......you just don't hear about this in the news.
Heh, that's about the number of citizens killed by the U.S. bombs in the first Iraqi war. But the CNN never discloses such kinds of figures. Shhhhhhhh..........
Let me put it this way. You cannot post things like that without posting a verifiable source (link, book, etc.).
May 3rd, 2005  
Arclight
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charge 7
"We didn't find WMDs" seems to be a catchier headline than "We found hundreds of thousands of graves".
There is reason to that. President Bush explicitly said we were going to invade Iraq to find and remove the WMD's. It was the core of his argument for invading Iraq, to remove those weapons that threatened the United States and nations around the world. He persuaded a nation that these weapons were threatening to us and we should commit the lives of our servicemen and women to this cause.

And now nearly two years after the invasion, we have ended the search for the WMD's. We have ruled out that they were transported to Syria before the invasion began. It doesn't make sense. Bush failed the American people by sending them into a war with false claims. By doing so, more than 1,500 American soldiers were killed along with the thousands of disabled soldiers.

Plain and simple, President Bush did not say we were going into Iraq to free the oppressed. After not finding the WMD's, this was the scape goat for the Bush administration. We cannot invade a country, find that the reasons of invading were incorrect, and then let the President continue on.
May 3rd, 2005  
Charge 7
 
 
Actually what he stated for his reasons to Congress on March 18, 2003 was this:

Quote:
Text of a Letter from the President to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President Pro Tempore of the Senate

March 18, 2003

Dear Mr. Speaker: (Dear Mr. President

Consistent with section 3(b) of the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 (Public Law 107-243), and based on information available to me, including that in the enclosed document, I determine that:

(1) reliance by the United States on further diplomatic and other peaceful means alone will neither (A) adequately protect the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq nor (B) likely lead to enforcement of all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq; and

(2) acting pursuant to the Constitution and Public Law 107-243 is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001.

Sincerely,

GEORGE W. BUSH
Source: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0030319-1.html

The part about the WMDs was not part of his statement to Congress but was in his warning to the American people in his State of the Union speech on January 29, 2003. An excerpt follows:

Quote:
Twelve years ago, Saddam Hussein faced the prospect of being the last casualty in a war he had started and lost. To spare himself, he agreed to disarm of all weapons of mass destruction.

For the next 12 years, he systematically violated that agreement. He pursued chemical, biological and nuclear weapons even while inspectors were in his country.

Nothing to date has restrained him from his pursuit of these weapons: not economic sanctions, not isolation from the civilized world, not even cruise missile strikes on his military facilities.

Almost three months ago, the United Nations Security Council gave Saddam Hussein his final chance to disarm. He has shown instead utter contempt for the United Nations and for the opinion of the world.

The 108 U.N. inspectors were sent to conduct -- were not sent to conduct a scavenger hunt for hidden materials across a country the size of California. The job of the inspectors is to verify that Iraq's regime is disarming.

It is up to Iraq to show exactly where it is hiding its banned weapons, lay those weapons out for the world to see and destroy them as directed. Nothing like this has happened.

The United Nations concluded in 1999 that Saddam Hussein had biological weapons materials sufficient to produce over 25,000 liters of anthrax; enough doses to kill several million people. He hasn't accounted for that material. He has given no evidence that he has destroyed it.

The United Nations concluded that Saddam Hussein had materials sufficient to produce more than 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin; enough to subject millions of people to death by respiratory failure. He hasn't accounted for that material. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed it.

Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent. In such quantities, these chemical agents could also kill untold thousands. He's not accounted for these materials. He has given no evidence that he has destroyed them.

U.S. intelligence indicates that Saddam Hussein had upwards of 30,000 munitions capable of delivering chemical agents. Inspectors recently turned up 16 of them, despite Iraq's recent declaration denying their existence. Saddam Hussein has not accounted for the remaining 29,984 of these prohibited munitions. He has given no evidence that he has destroyed them.

From three Iraqi defectors we know that Iraq, in the late 1990s, had several mobile biological weapons labs. These are designed to produce germ warfare agents and can be moved from place to a place to evade inspectors. Saddam Hussein has not disclosed these facilities. He has given no evidence that he has destroyed them.

The International Atomic Energy Agency confirmed in the 1990s that Saddam Hussein had an advanced nuclear weapons development program, had a design for a nuclear weapon and was working on five different methods of enriching uranium for a bomb.

The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.

Our intelligence sources tell us that he has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production.

Saddam Hussein has not credibly explained these activities. He clearly has much to hide.

The dictator of Iraq is not disarming. To the contrary, he is deceiving.

From intelligence sources, we know, for instance, that thousands of Iraqi security personnel are at work hiding documents and materials from the U.N. inspectors, sanitizing inspection sites and monitoring the inspectors themselves.

Iraqi officials accompany the inspectors in order to intimidate witnesses. Iraq is blocking U-2 surveillance flights requested by the United Nations.

Iraqi intelligence officers are posing as the scientists inspectors are supposed to interview. Real scientists have been coached by Iraqi officials on what to say.

Intelligence sources indicate that Saddam Hussein has ordered that scientists who cooperate with U.N. inspectors in disarming Iraq will be killed, along with their families.

Year after year, Saddam Hussein has gone to elaborate lengths, spent enormous sums, taken great risks to build and keep weapons of mass destruction. But why?

The only possible explanation, the only possible use he could have for those weapons, is to dominate, intimidate or attack.

With nuclear arms or a full arsenal of chemical and biological weapons, Saddam Hussein could resume his ambitions of conquest in the Middle East and create deadly havoc in that region.

And this Congress and the American people must recognize another threat. Evidence from intelligence sources, secret communications and statements by people now in custody reveal that Saddam Hussein aids and protects terrorists, including members of Al Qaida. Secretly, and without fingerprints, he could provide one of his hidden weapons to terrorists, or help them develop their own.

Before September the 11th, many in the world believed that Saddam Hussein could be contained. But chemical agents, lethal viruses and shadowy terrorist networks are not easily contained.

Imagine those 19 hijackers with other weapons and other plans, this time armed by Saddam Hussein. It would take one vial, one canister, one crate slipped into this country to bring a day of horror like none we have ever known.

We will do everything in our power to make sure that that day never comes.
Source:
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/...tu.transcript/

So WMDs was a part of the reasoning for war with Iraq. It was never the only reason or even the main reason but the media and those opposed to the war would have you think otherwise. The main reason was Saddam's threat to the security of the nation, the Middle East, and the world. WMDs were only one aspect of that threat.