Iraqi equipment

Great...A country between Germany and Ukrain with 500 tanks. I hope nothing strange happens in european politics over the next 5 years:)
 
Great...A country between Germany and Ukrain with 500 tanks. I hope nothing strange happens in european politics over the next 5 years:)

We're just as happy as you're. Our MoD decided that the temporary AT assets are to be self propelled artillery and Spikebuses (Patria AMV with Spike launchers)..
 
First of all we need to distinguish between US M1A1 and say Australian or Egyptian M1A1 the difference is in optics and armor, then we need to distinguish between T-64 as it rolled out of the factory and those in operation currently.

T-64 'is' an inferior design and its nowhere near US tanks however US export vehicles are significantly inferior in every respect save for firepower while T-64s presently in operation are upgraded with all available advances in optics, ammunition and often uparmored so they're definitely superior to a bare export option.

This is all in view that Iraq replaces its 4500 outdated tanks with 300~ slightly less outdated tanks.

This is arguable. Through the past 15 years the M1 has received so many and such advanced upgrades than what the original M1 had, it is so far obsolete that it is just insanity. The T-72, is an on par tank with the M60A3TTS, the M60A3TTS actually has certain advantages over the T-72, let alone the T-64.

The Iraqi T-72's don't even have a composite armor, the M1 does. Not the DU mesh, but it does have Chobham and then whatever the Iraqi's decide to throw on it.

I'm sure the export version of the M1 could defiantly hold out a bit longer than an Iraqi T-72, because believe it or not, when we went in in 91' not all unit's had the M1A1, there where baseline M1/IPM1's in front line armor units too.

Not to mention how many of the 4500 tanks the Iraqi's currently have, how well are they kept, how many actually run, and how many actually have trained crews? If the US is going to be training Iraqi tankers, then we are going to train them on our systems.

But, in the end, it's a "whatever" situation, because could have, should have, or would have we don't make the decisions and the guys behind the big desks do. :mrgreen:

IMO the best idea for the Iraqi's would have been the 120S, give um a bunch of old M60's and the 120S package, but I suppose the M1 works too. :cool:
 
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Regardless of the type, 320 tanks are a joke, for a country like Iraq in such a hot region the numbers to consider start from 1000 upwards and thats when we're talking good tanks.
 
Regardless of the type, 320 tanks are a joke, for a country like Iraq in such a hot region the numbers to consider start from 1000 upwards and thats when we're talking good tanks.

That's why I think the 120S is a good idea. 12,000 M60's in the US inventory, we don't use them. Sell them at a fair price with the kits. Make some money, and they get a larger, modernized tank force.
 
That's why I think the 120S is a good idea. 12,000 M60's in the US inventory, we don't use them. Sell them at a fair price with the kits. Make some money, and they get a larger, modernized tank force.
Ignoring political realities, T-80U or T-90 is still a better choice since these babies are cheap(er) than M1 and better than M60 in any setup, the M60's you have have seen a lot of use and i doubt they're being maintained up to shape in mothballs, Iraqis would be getting used up equipment, i'm not a big fan of russian hardware but when you're on a budget Russia's the place to go, especially in tanks.
 
Im quite sure the M60 in Sabra form could do horrible things to a T-80, but thats just my opinion.
And the other way around, however you can still modernize a T-80 while an M60Sabra is pretty much it, you did wonders with the tank but there's not much else you can do with it, its the end of the modernisation line.
 
Im quite sure the M60 in Sabra form could do horrible things to a T-80, but thats just my opinion.

Oh for sure.



And the other way around, however you can still modernize a T-80 while an M60Sabra is pretty much it, you did wonders with the tank but there's not much else you can do with it, its the end of the modernisation line.

M60-120S

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/382/120s1kl2.jpg

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/7835/120s2vf4.jp

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/8678/120s3gz2.jpg
 
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I think the M60120s and the Sabra are about the same, if the Sabra isent a bit better. The Sabra has fire control, main gun and protection from the Merkava Mk III and IV. But for many reasons I cant see many countries buying Sabras:
1: Its only worth while if you already have a large stock of M60 tanks. Most clients of Israeli hardware either have better tanks already like the Leo 2A4 or 2A5. The rest are former eastern block or french hardware buyers that have T-55/62/72 or AMX-13 and AMX-30. With out knowing I am guessing Israel offers upgrade packages for all of this designs, either ful ones similar to the Sabra, or just partiall like FCS components etc.
2: Israel and Turkey are probably not too keen to let just anybodey put their hands on the Mk 4 protection plates that as it seems, cover the turret of the Sabra as well as the front hull.
3. Many countries refuse to buy Israeli hardware, including all Arab countries and some other countries.

Iraq for sure, even if it is now controlled by more pro-western leaders(and this remains to be seen when the Americans leave) wouldent buy Israeli hardware. Israel dosent sell to Jordan or Egypt, that have peace treties with it, so I cqant see the iraqies buying anything Made in Israel.

So yes, this has all been off-toppic :)

As for the Iraqis, I cant see what else they can do but buy the M-1, even in its "watered down" version. Surely most of Sadams T-72 and T-62 are destroyed, rusting or just neglected beyond use. I would not be surprised if over 75% of them are total-losses.
Buying T-80 or T-90 from Russia is not a bad idea, but I can only assume these tanks are being bought with American aid. If so, I doubt the Russians are willing to do the same whilest the Iraqi regieme seems at this time pro-western or at least not pro-Russian. Even if they can get T-90 for half the price of the export version M1, Im not saure they can afford to fund the purchase themselves. All in all the Iraqi army is in the ****. It fought 3 major wars in 30 years, with tremendous loss of equippment and life. Once the Americans pull out not much stands between Iran and Bagdad, assuming the Iranis make a pass at it.
 
M60-120S looks like some kind of deception plan into getting your enemies to think that you've got a massive fleet of M1s!
 
Both pre- and post-Saddam Iraq really didn't have the resources the build the kind of tank fleet that could take on modern western tanks. Any country in that region has to design a military force that is focused not on what the US Army has, but on what its other neighbors have like Iran and perhaps Saudi Arabia have as far as MBT's.

A poor battle scarred country like Iraq is not going to be able to afford to buy or maintain large numbers of modern western tanks. I would opt for a mixed fleet of T-62's and T-72's. Maybe some of these tanks could be upgraded with more modern weapons, engines and the like. Not every regional power can afford to have the kind of gilt edged militaries like the US or other NATO countries
 
A poor battle scarred country like Iraq is not going to be able to afford to buy or maintain large numbers of modern western tanks. I would opt for a mixed fleet of T-62's and T-72's. Maybe some of these tanks could be upgraded with more modern weapons, engines and the like. Not every regional power can afford to have the kind of gilt edged militaries like the US or other NATO countries

Thats a good point. Only one problem. Iraqs next door countries are armed thus:

Kuwait: M1A2 and older tanks
Saudi Arabia: M1A2 and M1A2, plus older tanks.
Jordan: Challanger I and highly advanced M60 upgrades, and older tanks.
Iran: Zulfiqar and older tanks.
Turkey: Leopard 2A6, Sabra III, older tanks.

In short they shou8ld go for a hi-lo mix. 100-200 M1A2 and 300-600 M60 or T-72.
 
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