Iraqi equipment

who is in fact losing???

Can you attach a link to back up such a claim. You do realized Iraq lost right?

the link http://www.almansore.com/index.php . ok

so even with better training and better equipments you can have zaro tanks killed ...we know the american propaganda and we also know that the casualties are so high and pls rationate you data .
imagine that a t-72 iraki tank wouldnt be at least able to hit Ma1 with a lethal shot !!!!! or just 4 t-72 against one abrams !!!:rambo:

http://www.al-moharer.net/moh240/f_badrane240e.htm

as well as you dont read the opponents viewpoint your jugdment is bad !!

by the way who is pulling out !!!! americans wake up !!!! you toppled saddam's regime but not Irakis willing for fight .
the resistants are doing miricals there !!! and most of them are former militants of saddam's regime .
 
Links

I hope those former militants of Saddam's regime lead your country down the wonderful path you want it too. The killing each other seems to be working well for the locals, religion is such a wonderful thing. :pray::9mm:
 
so even with better training and better equipments you can have zaro tanks killed ...we know the american propaganda and we also know that the casualties are so high and pls rationate you data .
imagine that a t-72 iraki tank wouldnt be at least able to hit Ma1 with a lethal shot !!!!! or just 4 t-72 against one abrams !!!:rambo:

as well as you dont read the opponents viewpoint your jugdment is bad !!

by the way who is pulling out !!!! americans wake up !!!! you toppled saddam's regime but not Irakis willing for fight .
the resistants are doing miricals there !!! and most of them are former militants of saddam's regime .


Yeah right nice credible sources:roll:.

M1A1 Abrams could fire on the move more accurately than a T72 or Type 69, and at longer ranges. The M1A1 was outfitted with reactive armor. The M1A1 was firing sabot DU rounds. The M1A1 had a better fire control system.

The Iraqi's were wedded to their soviet taught tactics. They ethier A. did not have the ability to break with and adjust off those tactics to deal with the threat. or B. lacked the judgement to do it.

Being wedded to a tactic and unable to adjust in a fluid enviroment will kill a unit. They trained to deal with massive liner formations and fight in massive liner formations, they didn't adjust they died.

The kills are not in question: 186 T72's and Type 69's (combined) 127 APC/IFV's these kills were step on's, meaning after the battle they were appoarched and counted and chalked. An additional 38 tanks were destroyed by AH64's and A10's to the rear of the FEBA that night.

1st Armor Division 4 M1A1 disabled. 1 Killed (Blue on Blue) by a sabot DU round. The Only country using those rounds was the US, so its a friendly fire incident.

The Iraqi commander at Medina ridge was perhaps the only one in the war on his side to use good tactics, by deploying on the reverse slope of the ridge. But he was still outgunned and out ranged.


Yeah hope you enjoy another Baathist reign of terror.
 
Yes i do !!

Yeah right nice credible sources:roll:.

M1A1 Abrams could fire on the move more accurately than a T72 or Type 69, and at longer ranges. The M1A1 was outfitted with reactive armor. The M1A1 was firing sabot DU rounds. The M1A1 had a better fire control system..

i admit that you are the powerful nation on earth, i can tell you that you got my gratitude and all of those who respect science and the military career.

The Iraqi's were wedded to their soviet taught tactics. They ethier A. did not have the ability to break with and adjust off those tactics to deal with the threat. or B. lacked the judgement to do it.

Being wedded to a tactic and unable to adjust in a fluid enviroment will kill a unit. They trained to deal with massive liner formations and fight in massive liner formations, they didn't adjust they died.

The kills are not in question: 186 T72's and Type 69's (combined) 127 APC/IFV's these kills were step on's, meaning after the battle they were appoarched and counted and chalked. An additional 38 tanks were destroyed by AH64's and A10's to the rear of the FEBA that night.

ok may be it is a fault that should be avoided in the future!!
but the soviet doctrine as you know, deals with large formations ruther than small well equiped platoons ...bcuz of the lack of efficiancy of the russian tanks .
i agree on that point with you when it said that mentality of mass troops and huge numbers attack is no mre successful tactic to win war.



1st Armor Division 4 M1A1 disabled. 1 Killed (Blue on Blue) by a sabot DU round. The Only country using those rounds was the US, so its a friendly fire incident.
ok i will accept it even though your sourse is only what uncle sam has said

The Iraqi commander at Medina ridge was perhaps the only one in the war on his side to use good tactics, by deploying on the reverse slope of the ridge. But he was still outgunned and out ranged.


Yeah hope you enjoy another Baathist reign of terror.

ok we have our legacy to consider and pls "pull out know while you can rather than you have nada to pull"
 
imagine that a t-72 iraki tank wouldnt be at least able to hit Ma1 with a lethal shot !!!!! or just 4 t-72 against one abrams !!!

A T-72 with a badly trained crew, no modern fire control, no thermal imaging system, and no modern APFSDS ammo? Yes, it would not matter how many there are. Ever tried to shoot a target 2000 meters away looking through a tank gun sight? Now try with out proper fire control. it takes 2 shots assuming you have a good gunner and commander. 5 if they are bad. Now try doing it when the target is moving. No way. The M1 Abrams on the other hand has top of the line fire control. Hitting a target 2000 meters away is not a huge issue, even when moving.

Now lets say the T-72 actually got a lucky shot in. What makes you think second rate APFSDS at 2000 meters would penetrate the M1A1? Im not even sure the American M839 APFSDS-DU can do that, let alone some russian or chinese crap.
 
Im having this argument with this stooge on another forum about the Gulf War. And he is always saying that 'Russian equipment is :cens:, this war proves it', and he doesnt seem to have any proof of that [No website that says it, no book etc]

So anyways, i was wondering if any of you know what Tanks, APC's, artillery etc the Iraqi Army used in the Gulf war, and could you PLEASE tell me if they were Russian export models [We all know the export ones suck x]]. And could you also tell me approxiamently when they were last modernised?

That would be a great help.

Which Gulf War, there has been three of them.
 
Massive liner formations can be only good when you have more soldiers and another massive line formation behind the first one.

In that case you are betting on a secure win instead of minimizing your deaths.
 
In any case, the problem was not russian rquippment, it was the fact that it was old or second rate russian gear. The T-72 the iraqis had were what we call here the monkey model. they are not as good as the russian ones.
 
really!!

In any case, the problem was not russian rquippment, it was the fact that it was old or second rate russian gear. The T-72 the iraqis had were what we call here the monkey model. they are not as good as the russian ones.

you are right to some extand but would you pleas tell us how they could use them i mean the t-72's
 
Iraqi army will be back and stronger than saddams army
i think i should remind you all that iraq purchased :
280 M1A1 Abrams not that type that the israel and egypt army having it cuz the iraqi abrams is model M
280 F-16 36 will be dilevered by 2011 and the others will be dilevered by 2011-2015
And also
F-16 falcon
F-16 block 55+
F-18
Rafale
And the iraqi soldiers are not longer using the AK-47 they're using M16 A4 and M4 and Colt M16 A2
I will make a new thread for what iraq purchased lately

Have a good time gents.
 
Im having this argument with this stooge on another forum about the Gulf War. And he is always saying that 'Russian equipment is :cens:, this war proves it', and he doesnt seem to have any proof of that [No website that says it, no book etc]

So anyways, i was wondering if any of you know what Tanks, APC's, artillery etc the Iraqi Army used in the Gulf war, and could you PLEASE tell me if they were Russian export models [We all know the export ones suck x]]. And could you also tell me approxiamently when they were last modernised?

That would be a great help.

In gulf war iraqi army used
T-72 tanks that UPDATED IN IRAQ AND NAMED "T-72 ASSAD BABEL"
T-55
And BMP-1
Thats what we used
 
Iraqi army will be back and stronger than saddams army
i think i should remind you all that iraq purchased :
280 M1A1 Abrams not that type that the israel and egypt army having it cuz the iraqi abrams is model M
280 F-16 36 will be dilevered by 2011 and the others will be dilevered by 2011-2015
And also
F-16 falcon
F-16 block 55+
F-18
Rafale
And the iraqi soldiers are not longer using the AK-47 they're using M16 A4 and M4 and Colt M16 A2
I will make a new thread for what iraq purchased lately

Have a good time gents.

Oh please, first of all you get M1A1 in an export version its a rather basic machine somewhere around T-64 in capabilities so you're exchanging over 4000 tanks for a few hundred outdated basic vehicles, you're never getting that many F-16s since US does not want you to have strong airforce and there's countries that will pay good money for them.

Iraqi army is going to be kept small and weak since you're still an occupied state rather than an ally.
 
T-64 was a very good design, but very complicated and expensive to make. Thats why the soviets moved to the T-72. But sayin that a 40 ton tank has equal protection to a 6o ton tank is very brave. As far as fire power the 125mm carried by the T-64 was certinly better than the 105mm on the original M1, but probably equal to the 120mm carried by later M1s, with the vastly superior american ammunition making up for the slightly smaller caliber. Also the T-64 did not have thermal imaging or even passive infra red, while the M1 had TI from the start, if remember correctly. Most russian exported tanks to this day do not have thermal imaging, which is a huge drawback. The Fire Control on the original T-64 was surely inferior to the original M1. Heck, original T-64s dident even have a LRF...And only in later models did they get a modern FCS computer. The T-64 also carries less main gun ammo than the M1, and even M1A2. The original M1 carried 55 105mm rounds, compared with 36 on the T-64.
So really, on what grounds is the T-64 superior to a M1 or M1A1, I dont know.
 
T-64 was a very good design, but very complicated and expensive to make. Thats why the soviets moved to the T-72. But sayin that a 40 ton tank has equal protection to a 6o ton tank is very brave. As far as fire power the 125mm carried by the T-64 was certinly better than the 105mm on the original M1, but probably equal to the 120mm carried by later M1s, with the vastly superior american ammunition making up for the slightly smaller caliber. Also the T-64 did not have thermal imaging or even passive infra red, while the M1 had TI from the start, if remember correctly. Most russian exported tanks to this day do not have thermal imaging, which is a huge drawback. The Fire Control on the original T-64 was surely inferior to the original M1. Heck, original T-64s dident even have a LRF...And only in later models did they get a modern FCS computer. The T-64 also carries less main gun ammo than the M1, and even M1A2. The original M1 carried 55 105mm rounds, compared with 36 on the T-64.
So really, on what grounds is the T-64 superior to a M1 or M1A1, I dont know.

First of all we need to distinguish between US M1A1 and say Australian or Egyptian M1A1 the difference is in optics and armor, then we need to distinguish between T-64 as it rolled out of the factory and those in operation currently.

T-64 'is' an inferior design and its nowhere near US tanks however US export vehicles are significantly inferior in every respect save for firepower while T-64s presently in operation are upgraded with all available advances in optics, ammunition and often uparmored so they're definitely superior to a bare export option.

This is all in view that Iraq replaces its 4500 outdated tanks with 300~ slightly less outdated tanks.
 
The iraqis never had T-64. Whatthey did have were T-72 monkey versions with no TI, no LRF and 0 chance of fighting any modern tank. The export M1A1s dont have the DU mesh armor, and have other drawbacks, but they are still very much superior to a T-72. Do you realize that a T-72 commander cant fire the main gun?! Russian tank design sometimes bewilders me:)
 
The iraqis never had T-64. Whatthey did have were T-72 monkey versions with no TI, no LRF and 0 chance of fighting any modern tank. The export M1A1s dont have the DU mesh armor, and have other drawbacks, but they are still very much superior to a T-72. Do you realize that a T-72 commander cant fire the main gun?! Russian tank design sometimes bewilders me:)

The point is that Iraqis are replaing 4000~ crappy tanks with 300~ crappy tanks so saying Iraq is going to become stronger than it was is uh...odd.

As for T-72s i can speak for PT-91 which has additional armor and ERA(conversly much better than Russian one since it provides greater power for less volume) its uparmored, has superior engine, improved optics and fire control, its a tank that can frontally pierce an export M1A and the only inferiority is in manouverability.

The point is that as far as armor is concerned US sells baseline junk to which modernized Soviet designs are superior and often cheaper, Iraq would be much better off buying Merkavas or striking a deal with Russia for some T-90s.
 
Iraqi army will be back and stronger than saddams army
i think i should remind you all that iraq purchased :
280 M1A1 Abrams not that type that the israel and egypt army having it cuz the iraqi abrams is model M
280 F-16 36 will be dilevered by 2011 and the others will be dilevered by 2011-2015
And also
F-16 falcon
F-16 block 55+
F-18
Rafale
And the iraqi soldiers are not longer using the AK-47 they're using M16 A4 and M4 and Colt M16 A2
I will make a new thread for what iraq purchased lately

Have a good time gents.

Also all the iraqi m84 mbt maybe will be upgraded to the new m84d standard.:tank:
 
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