The Iraq war

brinktk

Active member
I noticed this area has been dead for a while and was curious if anyone was interested in discussing the war in Iraq?

It could be about anything. Tactics, units, battles, commanders, administration, foul ups, books, doctrine, training...whatever you want. I'd be more than willing to give my insights to the discussion as well since I feel like I've the unique experience of being there in the begining, towards the middle, and at the end. From the ranks of lower enlisted, to non commissioned officer, to officer.

So, any takers?
 
I am particularly interested in a few aspects. How did the threat of WMDs effect the invasion and how the precautions effected you and whether if they were used how that would of effected the the success/ failure of the invasion ie how prepared were the forces involved to effect an invasion under this conditions.


I am also interested how the coalitions transition from invader to occupier occurred and whether it was planned for. If not how had the higher ups failed to recognise that removing the countries power structure would leave a vacuum that logically they (the occupiers) would want to fill.

I also think there is some interesting discussion to be had about the US's steep learning curve of COIN. In Iraq going from being virtually counter productive to going on to rapidly learn and become extremely effective in a short period of time .
 
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I am particularly interested in a few aspects. How did the threat of WMDs effect the invasion and how the precautions effected you and whether if they were used how that would of effected the the success/ failure of the invasion ie how prepared were the forces involved to effect an invasion under this conditions.

It affected the invasion a lot! It was something that was planned for comprehensively. We were almost certain we were going to be hit at one point or another throughout the course of the invasion. Everyone, and I mean everyone was in MOPP level one until after the fall of Baghdad with a dozen or more times of us getting the alarm to go all the way to MOPP 4. (fortunately all of them were false alarms) In the event that an actual WMD attack had occured I'm sure it would have been a very different story. I'm not sure what the survivability factor would have been even with our personal NBC gear and the NBC systems within our vehicles. We may have been protected initially, but with all the logistics problems we had I find it very hard to believe that any NBC decontamination units could or would have been able to get to the affected areas in sufficient numbers to prevent large loss of life. We just kind of accepted that if we were hit with it, we'd fight for as long as we could, but us front line troops were probably not gonna make it more than 24-48 hours after those agents were introduced.


I am also interested how the coalitions transition from invader to occupier occurred and whether it was planned for. If not how had the higher ups failed to recognise that removing the countries power structure would leave a vacuum that logically they (the occupiers) would want to fill.


It wasn't planned for at all. I've done tons of research about that time period of Iraq and all the research points in the direction of the US government putting so much effort into the planning of the prosecution of the war, planning for after the war was an afterthought. Not to mention the rapidity in which the Iraqi Army collapsed and the speed at which Baghdad was taken...we simply were not ready. It was presumed the fight for Baghdad was to take 6 months alone, as opposed to the week that it took. This translated to guys like me on the ground clearly. After most the fighting stopped in Baghdad I fully presumed I was going to be home within a month. We were done, we had done the job. The Iraqis were really exhuberant, celebrating in the streets, shaking our hands and telling us things like "Bush good, Bush good". It was an awesome feeling because it felt like we had really done something. BUT....then the looting started. At first we were told to stand down. We were told we were "liberators" and to let the Iraqi authorities deal with it. Little did we know that most the IPs had abandoned their posts during the fighting and now A LOT of them were actively participating in the chaos. We idly stood by while a lot of the infrastructure was systematically reduced to almost nothing. Finally, we were given a little leeway in administering some type of rule of law which often turned into essentially vigilante justice where if we found you stealing stuff, we'd destroy your car, or bike, or whatever.

This idleness on our part didn't last long though, soon we found ourselves hunting down Ba'ath party members. And I mean all of them. Meanwhile, things started to get pretty bad for the Iraqis with limited power, sewage, water etc. Plus people out of work, uncertainty about the future, Saddam was still at large, Summer was heating up and people were starting to get pissed. Really pissed... A lot of Iraqis had the mindset that "we were America, we can fix anything instantly..." Easy to see how this can present problems when ones on patrol and they're coming up to you and asking when their power is going to come back...when their children can go back to school, why can't we stop all the crime...etc...we had no answers for them really. It was a long year for me after that because it only got worse for them and for us.

I also think there is some interesting discussion to be had about the US's steep learning curve of COIN. In Iraq going from being virtually counter productive to going on to rapidly learn and become extremely effective in a short period of time .

It's a funny thing...the US has learned this COIN lesson on numerous occasions throughout our history and it seems we forget it every single time...It also wasn't just on the US either. Things started to change when we got off the FOBs and moved into the neighborhoods. When we stopped exclusively just hunting "bad" guys and started engaging the right people on the right subjects. Plus the extremists in Anbar were begining to wear out their welcome at roughly the same time. The people were tired of the jihadis, they were ready to take their cities back. One minor sheik that had been neutral throughout the war came to our side. Then it was like all of them did because we went against what our government was telling them we were doing...We told him, we're here until it's done. Many of the sheiks that were left were hedging on the US leaving while the radicals were still in the country, leaving them to deal with them on their own...they were hedging their bets and we were unwilling to tell them we were going to stay because we really didn't know. Anbar had spiraled out of control, the rest of the country was following behind as well...it seemed unwinnable. Once we flat out told them we would stay and we would also let them do their own security...the IP recruits flooded through the gates. In a matter of 6 months Anbar went from the most dangerous place in the world, to one of the safest provinces in Iraq. We helped...but it was mostly the Iraqis. Slowly, over the ensuing 2 years, the rest of the country followed with US and Iraqi forces eating, sleeping, living, and fighting side by side.
 
I remember being in a trench in Kuwait, when we had those dreadful words of "Gas! Gas! Gas!". You haven't got time to mess around, as the only thing on your mind is "have we reacted in time?". Luckily it was just a false alarm. (one of a number false alarms).

The threat of WMD's was real and always at the forefront of your mind. You just didn't know when they would be launched at us. I remember leading my troop through a number of potential WMD "trigger" points. The relief of passing safety through one "trigger" point was very short lived as we approached the next. We couldn't really patrol in our NBC's due to the heat and reduced mobility. It would also be possible to damage the suit with a tear which you wouldn't know about until it's too late. On the other hand, your chances of getting your suit on after seeing low flying planes with trailing vapor or shells landing with only a small explosion, are between zero and nil. The threat of WMD was a major game changer for the land invasion.

Baghdad was hit by a massive aerial bombardment as coalition ground troops crossed the border from Kuwait into Iraq. The main objective of the British forces was Iraq's only major port at Basra, which is on the Shatt al Arab waterway at the top of the Gulf. Taking Basra was essential not only to keep military supplies flowing, but also to bring in humanitarian aid. For that reason the naval base at Umm Qasr was the objective. We conducted an deadly amphibious and helicopter assault in the Al Faw Peninsular that night. 220 RM's were inserted in 3 waves in about 2 minutes by Chinook to secure the oil terminal. We secured all of the oil fields to prevent the Iraqi's from releasing oil into the environment/setting fire to it like they did in desert storm.
 
Although the JSLIST was an improvement over the older MOPP gear we had, it was still quite uncomfortable. I started out wearing my DCUs underneath my suit...it didn't take long to go down to just my skivvies and a brown Tshirt underneath! I don't think it's terribly realistic to think that we could have possibly continued combat operations effectively under just MOPP2 conditions...

We used to joke how we had all this desert camo gear but the damn JSLIST were all woodland camo...so much for blending in I suppose.

Of course, frogman is right, the "gas, gas, gas" was absolutely real at the time. I don't think I've ever held my breath so good as I tried to dawn my mask in time...the minutes that passed by while we waited for the "all clear" seemed to take an eternity. Thank goodness those deplorable weapons were never used.

I crossed into Iraq on March 21. We were one of the first US regular infantry battalions to cross into Iraq. It was fairly anti climatic since most of the border outposts that we expected to have to take out had been totally destroyed the night before when the MLRS and SP Arty prepped the positions for us. By the time we got to them, the Iraqi soldiers who hadn't been killed had ran off. Still, for a 19 year old kid it was quite a sight to see...little did I know...
 
Of course, frogman is right, the "gas, gas, gas" was absolutely real at the time. I don't think I've ever held my breath so good as I tried to dawn my mask in time...the minutes that passed by while we waited for the "all clear" seemed to take an eternity. Thank goodness those deplorable weapons were never used.

As well as holding your breath, you've got to shut your eyes and turn your back, and then search your bergen for your mask, all within about 15 seconds. I start sweating just thinking about it!!

I crossed into Iraq on March 21. We were one of the first US regular infantry battalions to cross into Iraq. It was fairly anti climatic since most of the border outposts that we expected to have to take out had been totally destroyed the night before when the MLRS and SP Arty prepped the positions for us. By the time we got to them, the Iraqi soldiers who hadn't been killed had ran off. Still, for a 19 year old kid it was quite a sight to see...little did I know...

You weren't 15th MEU, were you? Reason I ask is that they were attached to 3 Commando Brigade (RM) and went in on March 21.

We went in via Kuwait the night before (March 20) at around 2200 hours if my memory serves me correctly.
 
No, I was with 3-15 IN of the 3rd Infantry div. We crossed at about 0500 from Kuwait into Iraq on the 21st. The Jarheads were to our East. After crossing the border, we made a mad dash across open desert to our first objective which if I remember correctly was OBJ Martin. It was all kind of a blur. I know my Brigade set some sort of record for an armored formation covering over 200 miles in the first 24 hours after crossing the LD.

We had our first big engagement southwest of Najaf which was OBJ Rams. From there we continued to move north/northwest onto our next big OBJ which was up by the Karbala Gap. I'm pretty sure this one was called Spartan but I could be wrong, my mind if kind of foggy on it because by this time in the fight I was going on slim to no sleep and was utterly exhausted by several days of: move, dismount, clear an area, remount, move, dismount, clear an area, remount, etc. etc.

But, all of this paled in comparison to the fighting that took place once we got into Baghdad. But, that's a long story...
 
I figured this would be about it. I was hoping VDKMS would engage me here on the topic of Iraq. I guess primary sources aren't desired...
 
As well as holding your breath, you've got to shut your eyes and turn your back, and then search your bergen for your mask, all within about 15 seconds. I start sweating just thinking about it!!

Y'all have 15 seconds? I was trained to don my pro mask in 9. Then you have 8 minutes to get the whole JSLIST on. I still hate that damn suit and those annoying boots.
 
I figured this would be about it. I was hoping VDKMS would engage me here on the topic of Iraq. I guess primary sources aren't desired...

They certainly aren't in VD's world but the rest of us appreciate them greatly.

Unfortunately I know nothing about the Iraq war as it was something New Zealand went to great efforts to stay out of so it is hard to discuss when you don't know the first place to start (and you know what they say, better to be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt), from my part I would rather see how the thread develops and learn by asking question about specific points.
 
Fallujah...just a bad bad place.

It was just outside this city where I was wounded back in the late summer of 03.

Both Fallujah and Ramadi were cities where you could see the hatred on the peoples face. You could see the desire to kill in many of the mens eyes. I went through some very tough times in these cities and it was in these cities (and Al Hit) where I spent 80% of my time serving in Iraq. I'm glad it got better out there, when I left in mid 05 from my 2nd tour it seemed utterly hopeless.
 
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Ah, good memories! ;) :lol:

****Strong Language!****

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLW-ifORO2g&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]Royal Marines Commando NBC - Running with S10 Respirator - YouTube[/ame]
 
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We used S10 respirators, they were very uncomfortable, there was nothing worse than doing a run in full NBC kit the morning after the night before, still hung over after a heavy session on the lash. Feeling that nauseous, you do a technicoloured yawn all over the inside of the mask! :shock:
 
I figured this would be about it. I was hoping VDKMS would engage me here on the topic of Iraq. I guess primary sources aren't desired...

I was not on active duty anymore when the war started in 2003.

But I've had a very small chance to participate in the first Gulf War. Not the invasion in Kuwait but in Turkey. There were rumors that the Turks were looking for non-Turkish personel to man their Nike Hercules Air defense systems. Unfortunately we were not able to prove the effectiveness of that system.
 
In GW1 Saddam did a big mistake. From August 1990 till January 1991 , about five month, allies were transferring their soldiers and weapons ,included 550000 soldiers , 3000 heavy tanks and 2000 planes, to Persian gulf and Saddam just watched them.
It would have been a good opportunity for him to capture the main ports and prevent the allies to strengthen their fortifications. He still had a strong army at that time.
 
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