Why don't you turn your microscope on Somalia , which you claim to represent; there you will find plenty to occupy that troll instinct of yours. Or would you prefer me to remind you that in that respect you have no place standing on your soap-box and spouting. Plenty of sorting there for you I reckon; should keep you occupied for a hundred years or so; then come back and report.
Iranian helicopters cross into Iraq
Why don't you turn your microscope on Somalia , which you claim to represent; there you will find plenty to occupy that troll instinct of yours. Or would you prefer me to remind you that in that respect you have no place standing on your soap-box and spouting. Plenty of sorting there for you I reckon; should keep you occupied for a hundred years or so; then come back and report.
UnitedSomalia
Banned
Ice Tea-"Very easily, when they also state their undying intention to destroy another country and refuse to be supervised to make sure they aren't building nuclear warheads."
Listen Iran has not kicked out the IAEA supervisors like North Korea, every Iranian facility is monitored and that is a fact and it is the reason why the West hasn't been quick to launch an attack because they have no basis to say Iran is enriching uranium or building any nuclear armaments as the IAEA stated Iran is well within its rights and has not broken any of the stipulations of the NPT. Iran never stated they want to destroy Israel, it is often misconstrued in the media the actual statement was along the lines that Zionism will disappear to the dust pins of history along side that of apartheid South Africa and Soviet Union. So where in that statement do you get Iran wants to bomb and destroy Israel? See Iran has the rights under the NPT and are with the boundaries they haven't broken any laws. Iran has a better track record than America, Britain, and Israel when it comes to attacking others, so going on facts Iran is more trustworthy than all these 3 so called "righteous angels".
Ice Tea-"First, while the CIA is probably the best intelligence gathering organization in the world, I honestly don't know if they could actually smuggle a guy into every reactor in Iran (there are like 50) and see that everything's legit in there. I mean they probably can, but I seriously doubt they've made that much of an effort. Second, you are confusing "invaded" with "got invaded and then retaliated and pushed the invaders past their own borders." There's a difference. Third, Israel doesn't threaten to annihilate any country, Iran does. It makes a lot of sense to me that a country which states its desire to destroy another country should not have nuclear capabilities. Now I know even countries with nukes don't want to nuke anyone 'cause that could start a chain of reaction that would result in a whole lot of nukes flying around, but the Iranian President and the religious fanatics behind him honestly don't care, or worse still, don't mind."
Firstly, your first 2 sentences are complete arrogance and laughable, the CIA has been proven not to be the most effective when it comes to penetrating other countries, you make it seem they can penetrate anywhere in Iran with impunity, but I won't get to much into it that is a debate for another topic.
What I meant by the CIA report was from what they gathered through IAEA on the ground monitoring in Iran and with the collaboration with allied countries they deducted Iran is no where attempting nuclear armament. Secondly, Israel has annihilated Palestine and relegated them homeless and destitute, Iran has never said it will attack Israel, but Israel has stated that they will attack Iran, now who is the warmongering?
Its easy to sweep facts under the rug and make all kinds of claims and assertions but it is for a fact Iran has not broken any laws and never threatened any country. And Iran signed the NPT and is cooperating with IAEA, I can't say the same for Israel. Iran has proven time and again that they are reliable and sane, they are no where these fanatics you attempt to portray them, they have so far proven far more reliable than the American-British-Israeli axis, history and facts on the ground is on Iran's side, you can make all the distortions you want to fulfill your agenda.
Ice Tea-"Because for most of these 300 years Iran wasn't ran by fanatic zealots. Now it is. I'm not making this stuff up. Even Muslim countries, such as Egypt, agree that Iran is a threat to pretty much everyone and that it is led by fanatics."
Correction here again Iran has been an imperial nation before the Islamic government took over and it became a republic but yet in those 300 hundred years they were imperial only in name and never actually invaded anyone. Even if you look at the last 30 years the Islamic government was in power in Iran, they have shown none of the fanaticism you claim. Iran in even the last 30 years have not threatened any nation, nor attacked any nation.
It is easy to make claims and assertions in order to vilify someone like the baseless claims that were made against Iraq in the prelude to the war about WMDs in order to overthrow them, now the same tactics are being applied against Iran with no prove and no facts with an agenda to vilify them and characterize them as fanatics who are acquiring WMDs, but it doesn't take brilliance to see through all the neo-con propaganda and smoke and the dirt they are throwing at Iran. The funny thing is none of that dirt is sticking and logical and reasonable people will see through it and see it as an agenda when they look at the facts themselves.
Ice Tea-"I may not have been in Iran, but on several occasions I have spoken to people who have lived there for many years. Persian Jews, you know. And trust me, without having to worry about being arrested, tortured and executed for high treason, they didn't so much as hesitate in telling me exactly how much they, and most Iranians (estimated at 70%), hate the regime and think the country is led by fundamentalist idiots (their words). This is backed up pretty well by these books which I've read (and highly recommend). Now, if you don't agree with former Iranians and a woman that grew up in Iran before and after the revolution, I... honestly don't know what to say.
Problem is, 70% hating the regime still leaves enough fanatics to become guerilla terrorists (like what happened in Iraq) if the government is toppled."
Persian Jews, let me get this straight just cuz you have spoken to few dissidents and disenfranchised people you can now gauge how 70 million plus Iranian feel? First of all Iranian Jews have the most safety in Iran than any other nation in the Middle East except in Israel. They have representatives in local governments, they have representatives in Parliament, they run businesses and worship in the open, they have synagogues built in the open, they have protection under Iranian law and constitution as a protected minority. So tell me where do you see Iran executing Jews and arresting Jews left and right. Give me one non-biased book written by a journalist or person who has actually visited Iran and has no agenda or anything to gain.
See 70% of Iranians don't hate their government that is a gross miss representation of facts and exactly what I mean by agenda. Are their people in Iran that don't like their government? Yes but the figure is not even hitting the double digits. Let me put it to you in terms you will understand, in the U.S. you had majority of the American public not liking the former Bush regime, now follow me for a sec, just because the majority didn't like Bush didn't mean they were unpatriotic or that they will sell out their country to be destroyed my foreigners. Now the same applies to Iran, the Iranian people are some of the most patriotic people on this earth, even those who disagree with their government won't sell out their country to be destroyed by foreigners. Specially after they seen what has happened in Iraq and Afghanistan and how those nations were destroyed by foreign attacks, tell me what Iranian even if they disagree with their government will say "please come attack my country, carpet bomb it and invade it" lol.
See my point is that majority and I mean overwhelming majority of the Iranians support their government, and even those that disagree with their government will not support foreigners' attempt to destroy their country.
Ice Tea-"After the Iranian military itself collapses (and if the US chimes in, it will collapse), if a western presence would attempt to install a puppet government we'll get the same mass guerilla warfare that happens in Iraq these days, yes. But that's simply a large minority, not the actual representation of the will of the Iranian people. But in contrast to the silent majority, the presence of these guerilla fighters will stick out greatly and their numbers will appear much larger than they actually are, so people might get the notion that the Iranians liked their old regime.
Now, I don't know any figures about how much the Iraqis liked or disliked their regime, and my knowledge of Iraq is admittedly close to nothing, but I do know that when the US troops took down that statue of Saddam when they entered Baghdad, they were asked to do it by Iraqi civillians who simply didn't have the tools to do it themselves (it was heavy, it was on a roof, and they didn't have a crane)."
Firstly I believe I answered your points here above. So I don't need to say more about this.
del boy-"Why don't you turn your microscope on Somalia , which you claim to represent; there you will find plenty to occupy that troll instinct of yours. Or would you prefer me to remind you that in that respect you have no place standing on your soap-box and spouting. Plenty of sorting there for you I reckon; should keep you occupied for a hundred years or so; then come back and report."
First of all the Somali subject is at another thread, but I all ready see what you are trying to do is divert the subject and hijack this thread to fulfill your agenda and spew you name calling such as "that troll instinct of yours" and your narrow minded stereotypes such as " soap-box". So I won't even dignify you with the rebuttal your are looking for and let you hijack this thread in order to divert the subject.
Listen Iran has not kicked out the IAEA supervisors like North Korea, every Iranian facility is monitored and that is a fact and it is the reason why the West hasn't been quick to launch an attack because they have no basis to say Iran is enriching uranium or building any nuclear armaments as the IAEA stated Iran is well within its rights and has not broken any of the stipulations of the NPT. Iran never stated they want to destroy Israel, it is often misconstrued in the media the actual statement was along the lines that Zionism will disappear to the dust pins of history along side that of apartheid South Africa and Soviet Union. So where in that statement do you get Iran wants to bomb and destroy Israel? See Iran has the rights under the NPT and are with the boundaries they haven't broken any laws. Iran has a better track record than America, Britain, and Israel when it comes to attacking others, so going on facts Iran is more trustworthy than all these 3 so called "righteous angels".
Ice Tea-"First, while the CIA is probably the best intelligence gathering organization in the world, I honestly don't know if they could actually smuggle a guy into every reactor in Iran (there are like 50) and see that everything's legit in there. I mean they probably can, but I seriously doubt they've made that much of an effort. Second, you are confusing "invaded" with "got invaded and then retaliated and pushed the invaders past their own borders." There's a difference. Third, Israel doesn't threaten to annihilate any country, Iran does. It makes a lot of sense to me that a country which states its desire to destroy another country should not have nuclear capabilities. Now I know even countries with nukes don't want to nuke anyone 'cause that could start a chain of reaction that would result in a whole lot of nukes flying around, but the Iranian President and the religious fanatics behind him honestly don't care, or worse still, don't mind."
Firstly, your first 2 sentences are complete arrogance and laughable, the CIA has been proven not to be the most effective when it comes to penetrating other countries, you make it seem they can penetrate anywhere in Iran with impunity, but I won't get to much into it that is a debate for another topic.
What I meant by the CIA report was from what they gathered through IAEA on the ground monitoring in Iran and with the collaboration with allied countries they deducted Iran is no where attempting nuclear armament. Secondly, Israel has annihilated Palestine and relegated them homeless and destitute, Iran has never said it will attack Israel, but Israel has stated that they will attack Iran, now who is the warmongering?
Its easy to sweep facts under the rug and make all kinds of claims and assertions but it is for a fact Iran has not broken any laws and never threatened any country. And Iran signed the NPT and is cooperating with IAEA, I can't say the same for Israel. Iran has proven time and again that they are reliable and sane, they are no where these fanatics you attempt to portray them, they have so far proven far more reliable than the American-British-Israeli axis, history and facts on the ground is on Iran's side, you can make all the distortions you want to fulfill your agenda.
Ice Tea-"Because for most of these 300 years Iran wasn't ran by fanatic zealots. Now it is. I'm not making this stuff up. Even Muslim countries, such as Egypt, agree that Iran is a threat to pretty much everyone and that it is led by fanatics."
Correction here again Iran has been an imperial nation before the Islamic government took over and it became a republic but yet in those 300 hundred years they were imperial only in name and never actually invaded anyone. Even if you look at the last 30 years the Islamic government was in power in Iran, they have shown none of the fanaticism you claim. Iran in even the last 30 years have not threatened any nation, nor attacked any nation.
It is easy to make claims and assertions in order to vilify someone like the baseless claims that were made against Iraq in the prelude to the war about WMDs in order to overthrow them, now the same tactics are being applied against Iran with no prove and no facts with an agenda to vilify them and characterize them as fanatics who are acquiring WMDs, but it doesn't take brilliance to see through all the neo-con propaganda and smoke and the dirt they are throwing at Iran. The funny thing is none of that dirt is sticking and logical and reasonable people will see through it and see it as an agenda when they look at the facts themselves.
Ice Tea-"I may not have been in Iran, but on several occasions I have spoken to people who have lived there for many years. Persian Jews, you know. And trust me, without having to worry about being arrested, tortured and executed for high treason, they didn't so much as hesitate in telling me exactly how much they, and most Iranians (estimated at 70%), hate the regime and think the country is led by fundamentalist idiots (their words). This is backed up pretty well by these books which I've read (and highly recommend). Now, if you don't agree with former Iranians and a woman that grew up in Iran before and after the revolution, I... honestly don't know what to say.
Problem is, 70% hating the regime still leaves enough fanatics to become guerilla terrorists (like what happened in Iraq) if the government is toppled."
Persian Jews, let me get this straight just cuz you have spoken to few dissidents and disenfranchised people you can now gauge how 70 million plus Iranian feel? First of all Iranian Jews have the most safety in Iran than any other nation in the Middle East except in Israel. They have representatives in local governments, they have representatives in Parliament, they run businesses and worship in the open, they have synagogues built in the open, they have protection under Iranian law and constitution as a protected minority. So tell me where do you see Iran executing Jews and arresting Jews left and right. Give me one non-biased book written by a journalist or person who has actually visited Iran and has no agenda or anything to gain.
See 70% of Iranians don't hate their government that is a gross miss representation of facts and exactly what I mean by agenda. Are their people in Iran that don't like their government? Yes but the figure is not even hitting the double digits. Let me put it to you in terms you will understand, in the U.S. you had majority of the American public not liking the former Bush regime, now follow me for a sec, just because the majority didn't like Bush didn't mean they were unpatriotic or that they will sell out their country to be destroyed my foreigners. Now the same applies to Iran, the Iranian people are some of the most patriotic people on this earth, even those who disagree with their government won't sell out their country to be destroyed by foreigners. Specially after they seen what has happened in Iraq and Afghanistan and how those nations were destroyed by foreign attacks, tell me what Iranian even if they disagree with their government will say "please come attack my country, carpet bomb it and invade it" lol.
See my point is that majority and I mean overwhelming majority of the Iranians support their government, and even those that disagree with their government will not support foreigners' attempt to destroy their country.
Ice Tea-"After the Iranian military itself collapses (and if the US chimes in, it will collapse), if a western presence would attempt to install a puppet government we'll get the same mass guerilla warfare that happens in Iraq these days, yes. But that's simply a large minority, not the actual representation of the will of the Iranian people. But in contrast to the silent majority, the presence of these guerilla fighters will stick out greatly and their numbers will appear much larger than they actually are, so people might get the notion that the Iranians liked their old regime.
Now, I don't know any figures about how much the Iraqis liked or disliked their regime, and my knowledge of Iraq is admittedly close to nothing, but I do know that when the US troops took down that statue of Saddam when they entered Baghdad, they were asked to do it by Iraqi civillians who simply didn't have the tools to do it themselves (it was heavy, it was on a roof, and they didn't have a crane)."
Firstly I believe I answered your points here above. So I don't need to say more about this.
del boy-"Why don't you turn your microscope on Somalia , which you claim to represent; there you will find plenty to occupy that troll instinct of yours. Or would you prefer me to remind you that in that respect you have no place standing on your soap-box and spouting. Plenty of sorting there for you I reckon; should keep you occupied for a hundred years or so; then come back and report."
First of all the Somali subject is at another thread, but I all ready see what you are trying to do is divert the subject and hijack this thread to fulfill your agenda and spew you name calling such as "that troll instinct of yours" and your narrow minded stereotypes such as " soap-box". So I won't even dignify you with the rebuttal your are looking for and let you hijack this thread in order to divert the subject.
Last edited by a moderator:
c/Commander
Active member
You just did. And you should learn to use the quote code.
Anyway. The reason that the United States has not fought a "credible" enemy since WWII is that we haven't needed to. The Soviet Union collapsed, China and North Korea are not military threats (sure, they could try to invade us, but our Navy and Air Force would then have about 4-5 days to sink every transport ship as it crossed the Pacific). Iran is not even in the ballpark of a threat to us if you exclude actions against US personnel in Iraq or Afghanistan. The only possible way that Iran could hurt us is with a guerilla-type nontraditional nuclear delivery. They're not there yet.
Wrong - I look for no rebuttal from you, there is none that can dodge the truth of the record of your regime's record and grant you the right to claim the high moral ground re. USA and Britain.
It is not the case that your credentials and agenda are an irrelevance, and I reiterate my last post on this thread.
Ice Tea
Active member
Ahh, but you see, this is why I'm taking Persian Jews as an example. I know that they are treated very well in Iran - that's why I figured their testimony is equal to that of any other (Muslim) Iranian citizen. I didn't mean Iran executes Jews for no reason. I meant that in general, Iranian authorities execute people, or beat them half to death, for critisizing the government (or for being Baha'i). Now I'm not going to tell you I've read any Amnesty report to validate any of this, because I haven't. However, I don't believe Wikipedia could be that far off from the truth, even if it's an open source.
I don't know, man. Those Persian Jews were in contact with other Iranians who were in contact with other Iranians. Odds are they've got a good idea of what's the feeling in Iran. Sure, they've probably never met even 1% of the Iranian population, but who ever met 1% of his country's population, unless the country is extremely small? You don't need to talk to an entire people to get an idea of their general feeling. You need to talk to 50.
I agree with you that the Iranian people are very patriotic and would never sell out their country, even if they hate their government. But I very much doubt that they like their government. They're too smart for that.
KJ
Active member
Thread started with Iranian helicopters breaching Iraqi airspace.
They should be challenged and escorted out.
If they do not comply with the challenge they should be shot down.
That´s where this thread started, that´s where this particular thread should end IMO.
Iranian helicopters got no rights in Iraqi airspace.
KJ sends..
They should be challenged and escorted out.
If they do not comply with the challenge they should be shot down.
That´s where this thread started, that´s where this particular thread should end IMO.
Iranian helicopters got no rights in Iraqi airspace.
KJ sends..
oRTouCH
Active member
Really funny though... Iran supported PKK against Turkey between 1980's and 1990's. Turkish intelligence discovered terrorist camps of PKK in Urmia-Iran. In September 11 , 1991 Iranian soldiers helped 40 PKK terrorists to cross the Turkish frontiers and then these terrorists killed 7 Turkish soldiers. Now they are fighting against them ? Blah !
KJ
Active member
At this time the interception would probably be done by the USAF.
Since they have control of the Iraqi airspace they are comitted to keep intruders out.
I can not see any american pilot hesitating to fire if the challange were not acted on.
IF it infact were an Iraqi aircraft they would fire.
Iran isn´t going to do **** about it as long as the US control the airspace over Iraq.
That is my opinion.
KJ.