https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/techn...248f9e95f19554

Originally Posted by George

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/techn...248f9e95f19554

Not really surprising but what can you when third and fourth parties are on selling chips and components to these dodgy countries.
In the end it probably doesn't matter too much as it only stiffles their own technological development and still leaves them 20 years behind western military technology.

Originally Posted by MontyB

In the end it probably doesn't matter too much as it only stiffles their own technological development and still leaves them 20 years behind western military technology.

And Russia is buying them....

Originally Posted by George

And Russia is buying them....

Yeah but let's face it Russia ceased to be a serious military power when the Soviet Union disbanded, it has just taken Ukraine to make the world aware of it.

Originally Posted by MontyB

Yeah but let's face it Russia ceased to be a serious military power when the Soviet Union disbanded, it has just taken Ukraine to make the world aware of it.

The claim that Russia was a serious military power till the USSR disappeared is a big exaggeration : in defense Russia was strong and is still strong :no one can conquer Russia in an offensive war,but the same is also valid for Russia/the USSR :its offensive capabilities were and are very low . See Afghanistan .Ukraine was not needed to make the world aware of it .

Originally Posted by lljadw

The claim that Russia was a serious military power till the USSR disappeared is a big exaggeration : in defense Russia was strong and is still strong :no one can conquer Russia in an offensive war,but the same is also valid for Russia/the USSR :its offensive capabilities were and are very low . See Afghanistan .Ukraine was not needed to make the world aware of it .

I am not as convinced that no one can conquer Russia now as I was 9 months ago.
Hitler in his bravado stated "You only have to kick in the door and the whole rotten structure will come crashing down, clearly he was wrong and there is no chance that Ukraine can do it either but if NATO or the USA ever did go onto a war footing I suspect they could in pretty short order (obviously nuclear weapons are the great leveler).
The reality seems to be that if you put up enough of a fight you don't need to kick in the doors as they fall off on their own.
I would also point out that Afghanistan was a Soviet conflict not a Russian one so it doesn't really show the Russian weakness.

[QUOTE=George;711215]And Russia is buying them....[/QUOTE
It think it is an interesting development when your only allies are half dozen most despotic countries on the planet and it says just as much about your standing as an economic power when you are relegated to begging Iran and North Korea for equipment.

[QUOTE=MontyB;711235]I am not as convinced that no one can conquer Russia now as I was 9 months ago.
Hitler in his bravado stated "You only have to kick in the door and the whole rotten structure will come crashing down, clearly he was wrong and there is no chance that Ukraine can do it either but if NATO or the USA ever did go onto a war footing I suspect they could in pretty short order (obviously nuclear weapons are the great leveler).
The reality seems to be that if you put up enough of a fight you don't need to kick in the doors as they fall off on their own.
I would also point out that Afghanistan was a Soviet conflict not a Russian one so it doesn't really show the Russian weakness.

Originally Posted by George

And Russia is buying them....[/QUOTE
It think it is an interesting development when your only allies are half dozen most despotic countries on the planet and it says just as much about your standing as an economic power when you are relegated to begging Iran and North Korea for equipment.

I like to see the proofs for the claim that Russia asked ( and got ? )NK for equipment and that it begged Iran for drones .
About Russia : it is defensively invincible in a conventional war,but the same factors who make it invincible from a defensive point,prevent it to be victorious in an offensive war .Russia bought also between 2015 and 2020 for hundreds of billions of Euro war material in France, Italy, etc, even in Ukraine .And I would not be surprised if it is still doing it today .
About Hitler : he was realistic enough to know that he could not advance to Vladivostok and if he could not do it with 3 million men,NATO/US,who could not even gather 1 million men,could even not go to the Volga .
About Afghanistan :the USSR with a population of 300 million + failed in Afghanistan, Russia, with a population of 140 million,would not do better : the USSR fought 10 years in Afghanistan, Russia would not be able to fight 2 years in Afghanistan .

About the Iranian drones :''Israeli,American parts found in Iranian combat drones sold to Russia .''
Source : WIN = World Israeli News
And the article also said that a third of the 200 technical parts were made by Japanese firms .
Thus, I don't think that one can dismiss the Iranian drones as inferior .

The same information can be found on Radio Liberty/Free Europe (=CIA )
November 4 "How Western tech in Iranian drones is helping Russia wage war on Ukraine . ''
There are hundreds of Western firms operating in Iran , thus no wonder that they do business with the Ayatollas .

Originally Posted by lljadw

The same information can be found on Radio Liberty/Free Europe (=CIA )
November 4 "How Western tech in Iranian drones is helping Russia wage war on Ukraine . ''
There are hundreds of Western firms operating in Iran , thus no wonder that they do business with the Ayatollas .

But if these parts are dual use there is very little that can be done about it, it would be a pretty hard world if we decided Iranians can't take family photos or buy washing machines on the off chance that they bolt them into drones or reprogram them for missiles.