Iran in Mexico and the Caribbean: Building a Strategic Trampoline towards the US
Really! And all this time I thought it was because the Taliban allowed Al Queda to use the country for a base for 9-11.
You are a Conspiracy theorist, you believe that a few old men in a cave can organise to hijack a plane (whose 'new' pilot only flew light planes), get NORAD to close down for a day, not get **** raped by interceptors and manage to hit a building right where it needed to be hit.
03USMC
Active member
No Pumpkin, that would be you. Might wanna stay off the Truther Web-sites and research actual events and occurances like NORAD was operational and at no time "shut down" and the availabilty of military aircraft and their readiness status pre 9/11.
http://standdown.net/ (quite a old site, still a good read)
Then how comes there was no response from NORAD? If there was over 110 minutes of lost contact and no response means essientially NORAD didn't serve it's purpose (might as well shut down) and let this happen.
Yossarian
Forum Resistance Leader
Agreed, furthermore
A lot of the procedures then were under the pretense that a violation of American Airspace, would be via Russian bombers or other military aircraft on more traditonal courses of attack, not civilian airliners used in a fashion that was demostrated on 9/11.
If you are wondering about how the FAA for example has changed such procedures after 9/11 in terms of crisis situations, everything from hijackings to MANPAD threats, they publish manuals and reports quite often on the subjects, many are avaible to the public.
The information is definently avaible, it's just nobody seems to want to take the time to sift through an 11,000 page report, mostly all official rift raft just to learn about a few key changes in air conduct and attack situations and how they are to be dealt with before or after 9/11.
And no, I am not talking about wikileak esk stolen documentation, just the stuff released for public viewing.
Last edited:
wayword son
Active member
or news western stations will not show due to the lack of evidence, or truthfulness.
Then again, “Pravda”, wasn’t pravda, was it.
your first statement is correct, the US is not a nation of little angels, short of the afterlife, there is no nation of angels.
but your second statement is incorrect. America is not the largest terrorist state in the world.
of course, you do not have a point, when you use sarcasm as supporting evidence for allegations of wrongdoing.
I do know the terrorists, and apologist for terrorists, use allegations of atrocity on the part of the US military to JUSTIFY flying airliners into buildings. But they are just trying to feel good about being imoral, mercyless murders, by baceless claims that my countrys uniformed solgiers are as bad as they are.
Last edited:
wayword son
Active member
reality check.
the reason conspiracy theory’s are so hard for me to believe, is I have found. a conspirisist inserts shadows into what is, in reality very simple in the light of day, then assigns motives to the shadows they have created.
a little reality here Zultra.
1. Your characterization of al-Qaeda as a few old men in a cave is not accurate. It is possible for a well funded organization made up of hundreds (Thousands?) of professional terrorists and paramilitary’s (like al-Qaeda) to plan, and execute complex terrorist attacks, from a safe, Base (in Afghanistan) a base that is not a "cave", but is a fully staffed facility with security, communications equipment, transportation, computers, and paramilitary training facilities. especially when that organization has the blessing of the host nations government, (mulla omars taliban)
2. as noted, norad did not monitor domestic flights, (I believe the priority threat was at the time, ICBM missile launch, not aircraft) before 9-11, our air force had no quick procedure in place to locate, intercept and shoot down airliners, and could not have responded in the critical 110 minutes after losing contact with the hijacked airliners
3. steering an airliner to impact such a large target as the WTC or the pentagon is not that difficult. its far harder to fly a WWII zero fighter straight and level, and poorly trained individuals’ were able to do that well enough to target ships at sea (kamikaze) the terrorists “pilots” did not have to do any of the complicated tasks such as tacking off or landing.
that being said, your thought process boggles the mind,
you say its conspiracy to simply believe that al-Qaida committed the act the al-queda leadership bragged about committing. when that terrorist organization is proven to have had the will, the opportunity, and the resources to have committed it?
it doesn't take Sherlock homes to figure it out.
the reason conspiracy theory’s are so hard for me to believe, is I have found. a conspirisist inserts shadows into what is, in reality very simple in the light of day, then assigns motives to the shadows they have created.
a little reality here Zultra.
1. Your characterization of al-Qaeda as a few old men in a cave is not accurate. It is possible for a well funded organization made up of hundreds (Thousands?) of professional terrorists and paramilitary’s (like al-Qaeda) to plan, and execute complex terrorist attacks, from a safe, Base (in Afghanistan) a base that is not a "cave", but is a fully staffed facility with security, communications equipment, transportation, computers, and paramilitary training facilities. especially when that organization has the blessing of the host nations government, (mulla omars taliban)
2. as noted, norad did not monitor domestic flights, (I believe the priority threat was at the time, ICBM missile launch, not aircraft) before 9-11, our air force had no quick procedure in place to locate, intercept and shoot down airliners, and could not have responded in the critical 110 minutes after losing contact with the hijacked airliners
3. steering an airliner to impact such a large target as the WTC or the pentagon is not that difficult. its far harder to fly a WWII zero fighter straight and level, and poorly trained individuals’ were able to do that well enough to target ships at sea (kamikaze) the terrorists “pilots” did not have to do any of the complicated tasks such as tacking off or landing.
that being said, your thought process boggles the mind,
you say its conspiracy to simply believe that al-Qaida committed the act the al-queda leadership bragged about committing. when that terrorist organization is proven to have had the will, the opportunity, and the resources to have committed it?
it doesn't take Sherlock homes to figure it out.
Seehund
Banned
The Allegory of the Cave
In the allegory, Plato likens people untutored in the Theory of Forms to prisoners chained in a cave, unable to turn their heads. All they can see is the wall of the cave. Behind them burns a fire. Between the fire and the prisoners there is a parapet, along which puppeteers can walk. The puppeteers, who are behind the prisoners, hold up puppets that cast shadows on the wall of the cave. The prisoners are unable to see these puppets, the real objects, that pass behind them. What the prisoners see and hear are shadows and echoes cast by objects that they do not see.
Such prisoners would mistake appearance for reality. They would think the things they see on the wall (the shadows) were real; they would know nothing of the real causes of the shadows. So when the prisoners talk, what are they talking about? If an object (a book, let us say) is carried past behind them, and it casts a shadow on the wall, and a prisoner says “I see a book,” what is he talking about? He thinks he is talking about a book, but he is really talking about a shadow. But he uses the word “book.”
If a prisoner says “That’s a book” he thinks that the word “book” refers to the very thing he is looking at. But he would be wrong. He’s only looking at a shadow. The real referent of the word “book” he cannot see. To see it, he would have to turn his head around.
The prisoners may learn what a book is by their experience with shadows of books. But they would be mistaken if they thought that the word “book” refers to something that any of them has ever seen. Likewise, we may acquire concepts by our perceptual experience of physical objects. But we would be mistaken if we thought that the concepts that we grasp were on the same level as the things we perceive.
Plato realizes that the general run of humankind can think, and speak, etc., without (so far as they acknowledge) any awareness of his realm of Forms. The allegory of the cave is supposed to explain this.
In the allegory, Plato likens people untutored in the Theory of Forms to prisoners chained in a cave, unable to turn their heads. All they can see is the wall of the cave. Behind them burns a fire. Between the fire and the prisoners there is a parapet, along which puppeteers can walk. The puppeteers, who are behind the prisoners, hold up puppets that cast shadows on the wall of the cave. The prisoners are unable to see these puppets, the real objects, that pass behind them. What the prisoners see and hear are shadows and echoes cast by objects that they do not see.
Such prisoners would mistake appearance for reality. They would think the things they see on the wall (the shadows) were real; they would know nothing of the real causes of the shadows. So when the prisoners talk, what are they talking about? If an object (a book, let us say) is carried past behind them, and it casts a shadow on the wall, and a prisoner says “I see a book,” what is he talking about? He thinks he is talking about a book, but he is really talking about a shadow. But he uses the word “book.”
If a prisoner says “That’s a book” he thinks that the word “book” refers to the very thing he is looking at. But he would be wrong. He’s only looking at a shadow. The real referent of the word “book” he cannot see. To see it, he would have to turn his head around.
The prisoners may learn what a book is by their experience with shadows of books. But they would be mistaken if they thought that the word “book” refers to something that any of them has ever seen. Likewise, we may acquire concepts by our perceptual experience of physical objects. But we would be mistaken if we thought that the concepts that we grasp were on the same level as the things we perceive.
Yossarian
Forum Resistance Leader
I refuse to except all you say, as surely you are working with the conspirators. lol
But a good read indeed.
Who is NK?
And do you think China will allow its client state North Korea to launch any nukes anywhere? They know if they do allow it the U.S. responses will go off course and hit Beijing and other major cities. Iran on the other hand does not have big brother to stop them launching.Strike now, destroy their ability to wage war and take their oil because thats what its about.OIL.If Iran tried to assassinate Saudis Ambassador why havent the Saudis retaliated?
Well mate dont you think its time you changed your tactics,1. Our soldiers lives are more important than the civilians, while ensuring their lives our soldiers lives are further endangered. 2.Where are the no go zones /free fire zones why are they allowed access around the roads. 3.Where are the fortified villages ,where all the outlying villages are brought in cutting off the enemies activities at night it worked in Malaya with the Brits in the 60s.4. These villages curfewed dusk to dawn again cutting off the enemies access to the people5.If the roads are so important make your own,military traffic only No stopping patrolled by light armour which will make it difficult for the enemy to plant IEDs, you have drones use them to recce the roads.
senojekips
Active member
"Off course"? I dunno what you're smoking, but you really should give it up. Today, major powers can deliver weapon payloads either through the door or the window, or if need be down the chimney, never mind missing the city or country.
brinktk
Active member
This is not Malaya, this is not Vietnam. There is no Jungle for these insurgents to hide. Our jungle is the cities. There IS a curfew. We do limit activity on roads. I'm not going to sit down and try to explain the changing tactics over the course of the entire war because you obviously have no clue as to what was going on in Iraq at any time. Beleive it or not, we actually know what we're doing, and all the things you've mentioned we addressed throughout the course of the war.
It's almost insulting for you to presume that you have the solution when it is so obvious your knowledge on the war is extremely limited.
Once again, another "expert" from behind the computer screen...sigh
I believe he's refering to the possiblility that has been brought up in the past that scientists aren't 100% sure ICBMs can fly over the North Pole & hit targets precisely.
LeEnfield
Active member
The one thing Russia was frightened of during the height of the cold war was information getting into the countries that they had under control about the difference in living standards between east and west. Now if the people in North Korea start to twig what life is like on the outside then the bigger problem that NK has. Even China could not contain this powder keg and the people have BIT more freedom now than they had before. The North Koreans that even cross into China must see the difference and they begin to question why they are starving and every one else is doing quite nicely, sooner or later the pot will boil over as it did all through eastern Europe and now the middle east.