Iran: Carter's Habitat For Inhumanity

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I really don;t know what to tell you dude! You're just a really weird old man I am trying to reason with.

I have no doubt whatsoever that you don't know what to tell me. That's what happens when you try to defend an indefensible point of view.

Well,.... here's a good lesson in diplomacy for you. If you want to reason with people and expect them to listen to what you say, it would help your case a lot if you chose a point of view that was just slightly credible to start with.

Your initial argument about Jimmy Carter may well be true, but your defense of the Shah in support of your argument is ludicrous, at least Jimmy Carter didn't have his secret police murdering his perceived political opponents which must count for something in his favour.

I would not consider defending the actions of the Ayatollah Khomeni, but why do you think it was, that he managed to get the Shah overthrown? I'll tell you why, "Because the Shah was more unpopular than he was". Doesn't that tell you something.

Your wishful agenda for Iran may have some validity, but using the Shah to defend your point of view is about as sensible as arguing that Idi Amin was the saviour of Uganda.
 
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revolutions dont spring out of thin air, for them to take hold the people have to be poor, oppressed and desperate.


thats the biggest indicator of what the shah's regime was like.
 
revolutions dont spring out of thin air, for them to take hold the people have to be poor, oppressed and desperate.


thats the biggest indicator of what the shah's regime was like.

Like you know any thing about the pre-revolutionary Iran that is worthy of debate... You know nothing so it doesnt really matter what a leftie thinks
 
Like you know any thing about the pre-revolutionary Iran that is worthy of debate... You know nothing so it doesnt really matter what a leftie thinks

Hmm let me see the year is 2007, the poster is 27 (according to the profile), the revolution was in 1979 now unless my mathematics are a little off target it would indicate that said poster was born in 1980.

So taking all this into account perhaps the same question should asked of said poster therefore without much ado what exactly do you know of pre-revolutionary Iran that wasn't feed to you from a book and the oh so evil leftist media?
 
Like you know any thing about the pre-revolutionary Iran that is worthy of debate... You know nothing so it doesnt really matter what a leftie thinks


oh noes! please dont call me a leftie! *quivers and wrings hands*


i may be a lefty (lol) but i serve my country...my OWN country. im not some cut and run republican boot licker, who's got a persecution complex bigger than the bloody moon.

so scared of the massed liberals and the "biased meeeeeeeeedja" that you could even see the truth if it was stapled to your face.


and every time you cant back your self up, you resort to name calling, every time you call some one a lefty, or an old coot....i KNOW you dont have a persian rug to stand on.


so.....lets try this again: The Shah, and his use of the SAVAK.


discuss.


it is my contention that the shah fill the jackboots of a dictator quite nicely,

1: un-elected
2: used a secret police to arrest torture and kill political opponents
3: cut and ran at first opportunity


my other question....which im sure you will brush off because iran is out to get you. if you hate the regime so so much, why did you serve in it's military for 3 years?
 
oh noes! please dont call me a leftie! *quivers and wrings hands*


i may be a lefty (lol) but i serve my country...my OWN country. im not some cut and run republican boot licker, who's got a persecution complex bigger than the bloody moon.

so scared of the massed liberals and the "biased meeeeeeeeedja" that you could even see the truth if it was stapled to your face.


and every time you cant back your self up, you resort to name calling, every time you call some one a lefty, or an old coot....i KNOW you dont have a persian rug to stand on.


so.....lets try this again: The Shah, and his use of the SAVAK.


discuss.


it is my contention that the shah fill the jackboots of a dictator quite nicely,

1: un-elected
2: used a secret police to arrest torture and kill political opponents
3: cut and ran at first opportunity


my other question....which im sure you will brush off because iran is out to get you. if you hate the regime so so much, why did you serve in it's military for 3 years?

For the last time, I am trying to reason with a superb jackass:

1- Since when a King/Queen is elected? I mean Dont make me laugh. Queen Elizabeth, which is yours and Canada's Queen, isnt elected too... Is she a dictator? You're so lame dude!

2- There is no evidence that Shah's security services tortured or killed opponents. Show me an evidence. Those that were arrested by the govenment were Soviet agents or Islamic terrorists. What does your country do to those who betray the allegiance to their country? Charm them and give them a vacation in some nice resort in Bali or Maldives?

3- Well, see where your arguement collapsed: Had his majesty stayed and killed the protestors en masse, then he would not be a dictator? LOL.... So just becuz he cut and ran and didnt suppress the 1979 revolt he is a dictator in your book.

Military service in Iran is mandatory.... get it? Now get over it! LMAO~

Btw, I am proud to be a republican boot licker... they dont suck like leftists... LOL
 
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Hmm let me see the year is 2007, the poster is 27 (according to the profile), the revolution was in 1979 now unless my mathematics are a little off target it would indicate that said poster was born in 1980.

So taking all this into account perhaps the same question should asked of said poster therefore without much ado what exactly do you know of pre-revolutionary Iran that wasn't feed to you from a book and the oh so evil leftist media?

History books, hearing first hand accounts from many many people who experienced that era and the fact that Iran of the Shah's era was a modern and westernized place where American dubbed : Little America. Women had every rights and werent oppressed. Military was strong. economy was awesome and people had high hopes in future.

It seems you have never met an even younger Iranian who would have the same opinion of the past about me. Btw, since when having a good opinion about the past is wrong?

http://rescueattempt.tripod.com/id29.html

Btw, where do you stand TODAY against the Iranian mullahs who have killed over 2 milions Iranians? Wake Up!
 
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2- There is no evidence that Shah's security services tortured or killed opponents. Show me an evidence. Those that were arrested by the govenment were Soviet agents or Islamic terrorists. What does your country do to those who betray the allegiance to their country? Charm them and give them a vacation in some nice resort in Bali or Maldives?

The Shah's brutal secret police force, Savak, formed under the guidance of CIA (the United States Central Intelligence Agency) in 1957 and personnel trained by Mossad (Israel's secret service), to directly control all facets of political life in Iran. Its main task was to suppress opposition to the Shah's government and keep the people's political and social knowledge as minimal as possible. Savak was notorious throughout Iran for its brutal methods.

More...... http://www.angelfire.com/home/iran/savak.html

Oh, I forgot, you don't believe anything on the internet. How very convenient.
 
The Shah's brutal secret police force, Savak, formed under the guidance of CIA (the United States Central Intelligence Agency) in 1957 and personnel trained by Mossad (Israel's secret service), to directly control all facets of political life in Iran. Its main task was to suppress opposition to the Shah's government and keep the people's political and social knowledge as minimal as possible. Savak was notorious throughout Iran for its brutal methods.

More...... http://www.angelfire.com/home/iran/savak.html

Oh, I forgot, you don't believe anything on the internet. How very convenient.

What brutal methods? Nothing there... Any ways, there were Soviet agents and terrorists trained by Libya, Palestinians and Egyptians. His Majesty pardoned many of those traitors though.

Read those articles I posted before commenting further, dude!
 
For the last time, I am trying to reason with a superb jackass:


name calling again

1- Since when a King/Queen is elected? I mean Dont make me laugh. Queen Elizabeth, which is yours and Canada's Queen, isnt elected too... Is she a dictator? You're so lame dude!

she's a figure head, with no power.

she also doesn't have a secret police....or torture cells


2- There is no evidence that Shah's security services tortured or killed opponents. Show me an evidence.

i have, in fact the shah himself stated to time magazine in 1979 that they dont need to torture "any more"


Those that were arrested by the govenment were Soviet agents or Islamic terrorists. What does your country do to those who betray the allegiance to their country? Charm them and give them a vacation in some nice resort in Bali or Maldives?

so they the shah said. is he to be believed....i believes his record makes his word to be less than reliable.

as far as i know....new zealand doesn't have anyone who has "betrayed the allegiance" to the country. but then again we aren't really the jongo-istic patriotic flag waving folk who take that sort of thing too seriously

3- Well, see where your arguement collapsed: Had his majesty stayed and killed the protestors en masse, then he would not be a dictator? LOL.... So just becuz he cut and ran and didnt suppress the 1979 revolt he is a dictator in your book.

well, usually when your subject rise up en mass and throw you the **** out, it's a big indicator that you did something wrong.

Military service in Iran is mandatory.... get it? Now get over it! LMAO~


no i wont get over it....there is much that goes to motive with your arguement.

Btw, I am proud to be a republican boot licker... they dont suck like leftists... LOL


your opinion and your entitled to it...however wrong it may be.
 
name calling again

she's a figure head, with no power.

she also doesn't have a secret police....or torture cells


i have, in fact the shah himself stated to time magazine in 1979 that they dont need to torture "any more"

so they the shah said. is he to be believed....i believes his record makes his word to be less than reliable.

as far as i know....new zealand doesn't have anyone who has "betrayed the allegiance" to the country. but then again we aren't really the jongo-istic patriotic flag waving folk who take that sort of thing too seriously

well, usually when your subject rise up en mass and throw you the **** out, it's a big indicator that you did something wrong.

no i wont get over it....there is much that goes to motive with your arguement.

your opinion and your entitled to it...however wrong it may be.

Whatever... I really dont know why I m wasting my time with a leftist citizen of this world? You can't change my opinion on His Majesty so sod off!
 
What brutal methods? Nothing there... Any ways, there were Soviet agents and terrorists trained by Libya, Palestinians and Egyptians. His Majesty pardoned many of those traitors though.

Read those articles I posted before commenting further, dude!

your own advice....read


The Shah also authorized the creation of the secret police force, SAVAK (National Organization for Information and Security, which was organized with the help of the CIA and Mossad.).This infamous agency operated its own secret prison, used torture extensively, assassinated dissidents, and kept the CIA informed. The Shah became a despot whose secret police did use torture, as he once admitted to Time magazine, and who eventually earned the passionate hatred of his nation. Amnesty International in the 1970s described his regime’s methods of torture: electric shock, burning on a heated metal grill, and t he insertion of bottles and hot eggs into the ****. According to 1976 Amnesty International estimates 25,000 to 100,000 political prisoners were being held in Iran. The Shah's own figure was 3,000 to 3,500. Anne Burley, an Amnesty International researcher, was shown by the government a SAVAK file that she deems authentic, containing pictures of victims who had been tortured to death. Several were women, she testified, and "in each case the breasts were mutilated." William J. Butler, a New York lawyer who investigated SAVAK for the International Commission of Jurists in Geneva, spoke to Reza Baraheni, an Iranian poet who was held for 102 days by the secret police in 1973. Baraheni told of seeing in SAVAK torture rooms "all sizes of whips" and instruments designed to pluck out the fingernails of victims. He described the sufferings of some fellow prisoners: "They hang you upside down, and then someone beats you with a mace on your legs or on your genitals, or they lower you down, pull your pants up and then one of them tries to rape you while you are still hanging upside down." Baraheni himself was beaten and whipped, and released only after agreeing to make a statement on television condemning Communism. Many other SAVAK victims were tortured briefly and then released, after the secret police satisfied themselves that they would no longer oppose the Shah. Did the Shah know? He told TIME in 1976 that "we don't need to torture people any more," implying that torture had in fact been practiced earlier. In any case, as an absolute monarch he obviously was responsible for the actions of his own security forces.[13]

There is some more direct evidence of the Shah's complicity in executions too. According to TIME, SAVAK agents had testified that the Shah, under international pressure to liberalize his regime and therefore eager to hide evidence of repression, gave the secret police a terse oral order in 1975: "Don't take any prisoners. Kill them." In a confession interspersed with sobs, Bahman Naderipour described how he and other agents, in response to this order, took nine political prisoners out of Evin jail in northwest Tehran, handcuffed and blindfolded them and then machine-gunned them. He and another agent, Fereydoun Tavangari, said that SAVAK murdered other prisoners in their cells, then turned their bodies over to police medical examiners with an explanation that they had been killed in gun fights while resisting arrest. For all the torture tales, U.S. experts estimated the number of political executions under the Shah at about 150 per year. By far the greatest bloodshed under the Shah occurred in the demonstrations that convulsed the country in 1978 and early 1979. The Shah's troops several times opened fire on crowds. One prominent member of the International Commission of Jurists classifies the Shah as in a "second league" of tyrants, below Uganda's Idi Amin, Cambodia's Pol Pot and Central African Emperor Jean Bokassa I. .[14]
 
Go Away!

His Majesty was a great man and a patriot and you can't change the world! God bless him for what he was. Leftists make me puke!
 
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Whatever... I really dont know why I m wasting my time with a leftist citizen of this world? You can't change my opinion on His Majesty so sod off!

Go Away!

His Majesty was a great man and a patriot and you can't change the world! God bless him for what he was. Leftists make me puke!


so, i have answered all you questions, and now you throw your toys and storm off?


face it, you cant handle it when people challenge your on you cut and paste articles


and like i said earlier....whether i am a lefty or not has no bearing on truth.

even if i am a lefty, i serve my country, i vote for who ever i see as being good for my country (what ever side of the house they sit on), meanwhile you sit out your life as some keyboard warrior in self imposed exile....safe and comfortable flinging insults at those who dont mirror your views, like a monkey flinging crap at the zoo.

while others in your homeland risk there lives daily striving for change in a country that frankly, deserves better luck than it's had in the past 70 years.

i know who is more deserving of my respect
 
The Shah became a despot whose secret police did use torture, as he once admitted to Time magazine, and who eventually earned the passionate hatred of his nation.

I reckon that this is a bit harsh really, murdering despots need love too y'know.:wink:
 
No... I just decided not to argue with a dogmatic communist who KNOWS absolutely nothing about Iran and her history to begin with. All you know is from sources that have an obvious bias against third world countries and can be racists and one sided. That's a fact!

I simply dont need your respect and never asked for it. Who are you to offer me respect? You have no clue, thats what it is. Just go away!
 
God Bless the Shahanshah of Persia

I reckon that this is a bit harsh really, murdering despots need love too y'know.:wink:

See you absolutely know nothing. You've never talked to an Iranian who actually hate him. I love him and know many who do so. You're a foreigner when it comes to Iranian issues. he is more loved than you could imagine
 
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