Iran, The Axis of Evil - Page 2




 
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Boots
 
December 26th, 2014  
JOC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Hang on second lets not jump the gun here if you guys are going to accuse Iran of supporting "undesirable" groups the world over (and I am not saying they don't do it) then you open yourselves up to scrutiny and when you do you will find a lot of skeletons in your closet as the CIA in particular has been responsible for over throwing numerous democratically elected governments and replacing them with pro-US governments that have slaughtered their own civilians without blinking an eye.

Just two easy ones off the top of my head would be Chile and Guatemala and I am pretty sure the health and well being of either the Chilean nor Guatemalan people at the top of the CIA's reasons for arming nor supporting the regimes that ran these countries.

Now I will not say that the Iranians are squeaky clean and heading for sainthood but I will say that there is something in the old saying that those in glass houses should refrain from throwing stones.
The CIA had it misdemeanors during the cold war as you point out and you could add the Indochina conflict to the list. However the atrocities committed by the Communist: the former USSR, China and their puppet states made these transgressions look minor in comparison. Hundreds of thousands were killed when Hungry rose up, millions died when Tibet was occupied. The list goes on.
Also the CIA has been scaled back and made answerable.
The big difference is that in the US one can choose or not choose ones faith and political views. In Iran this is not the case the citizens are held under strict Islamic laws and unpopular political statements are not tolerated.
December 26th, 2014  
brinktk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Hang on second lets not jump the gun here if you guys are going to accuse Iran of supporting "undesirable" groups the world over (and I am not saying they don't do it) then you open yourselves up to scrutiny and when you do you will find a lot of skeletons in your closet as the CIA in particular has been responsible for over throwing numerous democratically elected governments and replacing them with pro-US governments that have slaughtered their own civilians without blinking an eye.

Just two easy ones off the top of my head would be Chile and Guatemala and I am pretty sure the health and well being of either the Chilean nor Guatemalan people at the top of the CIA's reasons for arming nor supporting the regimes that ran these countries.

Now I will not say that the Iranians are squeaky clean and heading for sainthood but I will say that there is something in the old saying that those in glass houses should refrain from throwing stones.
I'm not the one who has thrown the first stones. He has literally said he wishes for me and my children to die because we are Americans...not something that is going to win a lot of friends.
December 26th, 2014  
moxen
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brinktk
I'm not the one who has thrown the first stones. He has literally said he wishes for me and my children to die because we are Americans...not something that is going to win a lot of friends.
Not indeed, We want you to die, because of your presence in Our borders, Your bombardments in Palestine,Lebonan,Iraq,Afghanistan and etc and because of supporting Shah,Saddam,Isis,Rigi,MKo and etc and Shooting a none military flight and killing children and women and at last because of 157M dies of Modernization [stat's by fukoyama]
And not becase of killing our soldiers[Army not Irgc in Persian Gulf/ and not because of direct role against Iran in Iran-Iraq war and not because of Mosaddeq and not because of all of your crimes in your dirty history]
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Boots
December 27th, 2014  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOC
The CIA had it misdemeanors during the cold war as you point out and you could add the Indochina conflict to the list. However the atrocities committed by the Communist: the former USSR, China and their puppet states made these transgressions look minor in comparison. Hundreds of thousands were killed when Hungry rose up, millions died when Tibet was occupied. The list goes on.
Also the CIA has been scaled back and made answerable.
The big difference is that in the US one can choose or not choose ones faith and political views. In Iran this is not the case the citizens are held under strict Islamic laws and unpopular political statements are not tolerated.
So your argument boils down to "Others do it so it is alright for us to do it but no one else can or we will lecture you on how bad you are and slap sanctions on you".

There is a term in the urban dictionary that applies to this, it is called "Whataboutery"

Quote:
whataboutery (plural whatabouteries) (informal, pejorative)
  1. Protesting at hypocrisy; responding to criticism by accusing one's opponent of similar or worse faults.
  2. Protesting at inconsistency; refusing to act in one instance unless similar action is taken in other similar instances.
December 31st, 2014  
Yossarian
 
 
Reading over this whole thread I just get the feeling all it is just poking each other in the Eye.

Hell, if the ideological differences between my government and Tehran weren't there I don't have one single reason to hate any normal Iranian. I'd buy Iranian tennis shoes and read the national newspaper. World is too small for me to stay caught up on all this anymore.

Honestly all I see is the U.S. fighting to manipulate it's economic interests in the region just like we did when we were scared out of our boxer briefs the Soviets were there doing the same thing.

Now USSR is gone and we still have this huge network of financial means via the Petro dollar, and military means via foreign military aid programs as ways to manipulate national leaders to do our bidding and sell us their darn cheap tasty oil!

Only real issue truly is Iran is the one nation in the region that adamantly has said "F that" to American Foreign Policy the last 30 years. (And wants to blow up Israel, kinda problem for American alliances in the region)


So we blew up their Navy in the 80's armed another fanatical Dictator to kill millions , many of his own people, boycotted them and pressured the world to never do any business with them because we claim they are building WMD's like cheap Bangladesh made T shirts saying "I <3 NY".

If Iran sold solely in the U.S. dollar all their oil exports today then overnight they would go form "Axis of Evil" to "Leader of World Peace in this New Age."

And all the America bashing aside, I really don't get to caught up on it anymore. Hell in 20 years it most likely will be China and East Asia leading the Empirical Bandwagon doing the exact same thing by then just like Britain and France did it one century before we started too after WW2.

I love my country but especially in politics there are always going to be douche bags and business men and I know there are plenty in both Washington and Tehran,

But for the rest of us:


World's a small place so I say drink up you sods cause it's crowded with 7 billion of us and we all going to be bumping to each other anyways, and it would be less awkward if we would all at least would smile more often.
January 1st, 2015  
edmondsonpr
 
Won't a nuclear armed Iran be a delight to the peaceful, non-violent religion of Iran?
Just think of all the good that is sure to come...
Months away and counting.
January 1st, 2015  
Yossarian
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmondsonpr
Won't a nuclear armed Iran be a delight to the peaceful, non-violent religion of Iran?
Just think of all the good that is sure to come...
Months away and counting.

Just like a nuclear armed Israel is by shooting civilians and bombarding whole neighborhoods with enough firepower used you'd think the Soviets were coming?
January 2nd, 2015  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmondsonpr
Won't a nuclear armed Iran be a delight to the peaceful, non-violent religion of Iran?
Just think of all the good that is sure to come...
Months away and counting.
Lets assume you are right (and I am not convinced you are as had Iran really wanted a bomb it would not have taken them 30 years to develop one) and despite saying they don't Iran really wants the bomb, what exactly is Iran going to do with this nuclear capability?

Here is a clue there are a number of nuclear armed countries out there many of them are unstable sh*tholes incapable balancing a cheque book let alone a world view yet in the 70 or so years the nuclear bomb has been threatening the world only one country has ever used them.

My argument remains that as long as one country has them then all countries are entitled to them.

As such I really don't care whether Iran wants them or not.
January 3rd, 2015  
Yossarian
 
 
"The costs of worldwide nuclear war in which even the fruits of victory would be ashes in our mouth"

JFK couldn't have said it better, honestly when dealing with weapons of mass destruction, it really doesn't matter that much who uses them. Even a regional conflict in say the India Pakistan region would poison the air and soil thousands of miles away leading to devastating environmental effects.

Flags just stop mattering so much at that point and even for now Rouge States like North Korea understand this just as much as run away super powers.
 


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