India's Army... Part II - Page 9




 
--
Boots
 
February 21st, 2005  
Peter Pan
 
AA,

Interesting points you have raised.

But it would be more conducive for discussion if the 'statistics syndrome' that is the hallmark of Communist regime to show 'progress' is desisted.

Statistics are excellent modes for uplifting morale but that statistics must be translated to mission or national aim productivity.

For instance one could have 1 million kilometres of road (hypothetically aimed at the moon), but if it falls short of joining the Moon and the Earth, that amount of roadway would be totally unproductive and a collosal waste.

So, instead of churning statistics, do come down to brass tacks and explain the various roads that you ahve in mind and its strategic and tactical implication. After all, this IS a military forum and this IS a military thread and not a general chit chat and timepass thread.

While the heart desires to rule, the Head must rule supreme.

Let 1000 Flowers Bool, but let them also have Fragrance.
February 21st, 2005  
Peter Pan
 
AA,

Interesting points you have raised.

But it would be more conducive for discussion if the 'statistics syndrome' that is the hallmark of Communist regime to show 'progress' is desisted.

Statistics are excellent modes for uplifting morale but that statistics must be translated to mission or national aim productivity.

For instance one could have 1 million kilometers of road (hypothetically aimed at the moon), but if it falls short of joining the Moon and the Earth, that amount of roadway would be totally unproductive and a colossal waste.

So, instead of churning statistics, do come down to brass tacks and explain the various roads that you have in mind and its strategic and tactical implication. After all, this IS a military forum and this IS a military thread and not a general chit chat and timepass thread.

While the heart desires to rule, the Head must rule supreme.

Let 1000 Flowers Bloom, but let them also have Fragrance.
February 21st, 2005  
lemontree
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AA
well, down to the barrel the chinese army is equipped with a better assultl rifle than the indian troops, rapidly chinese army is getting rid of the ak, and this will probably only be used by B units and paramilitary by now.
Which rifle are you refering to?...
The current AK Type 81, is not superior to the INSAS rifle. The Indian army has already switched over from the L1A1 almost 5 years back.
The NORINCO Type 86 is only a bullpup design of the AK, infact it is not even accepted in the PLA. The QBZ-95 looks promising, but still it is in no way superior to the INSAS rifle.
In fact the INSAS is far more accurate than any Type 56 or 81 rifle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AA
chinese tanks outnumber indian tanks,
It is of no consequence in a Sino-India conflict due to terrain restrictions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AA
in terms of aircrats, china has more su 27/31s and a large number of j-8II, ( not obsolete, but just less capable)
J-8s are nothing but Mig-21s with a bigger engine.
The FC-1/JF-17 is based on a Mig-23 design that has been rejected by the Russians.
http://www.pmulcahy.com/aircraft/chinese_fighters.htm
As for the Su-27's and PLAAF in general, please read below...
Quote:
The bulk of China's air force fleet is obsolete. All but a handful of its 4,000 fighters, 400 ground-attack aircraft, and 120 bombers are based on 1950s and 1960s technology. The vast majority of these aircraft are well over a decade old, and many will reach the end of their service lives during the next 10 years and are slated to be retired with only limited numbers of replacement aircraft likely to enter the air force inventory.

In the early 1990s, China introduced some two dozen Russian-made Su-27 advanced tactical fighters into its air force. While more acquisitions are likely, their pace and scale will be incremental and will not fundamentally upset Asia's airpower balance. And even with additional planes, the size of China's fighter fleet will shrink dramatically during the next 10 years, likely ending up only half as large in 2005 as it is today.
http://www.rand.org/publications/RB/RB32.html
The source is international and not Indian.
Quote:
in terms of artilery, i dont think i want to dicuss it, china owns in artillery,. with new 155mm artillery being added and the number of selfpropelled guns increased in the artillery regiments
Again you forget, the deploybility in mountains negats the superiority in number of arty pieces.
Quote:
over all training is better, whereas A troops goes under professional full time training with alot of the budget goign there. overall quality of soldiers is better, because many more people apply for the army since the numbers had been cut for infantry
That only time and events will tell.[/quote]
--
Boots
February 21st, 2005  
MadeInChina
 
type 81: The Type 81 is the second-generation assault rifle in service with the PLA. It replaced the Type 56 (Chinese copy of the AK-47) to serve as the standard individual assault weapon for PLA infantry troops and other services. Initially deployed in the 1980s Sino-Vietnam border conflicts, the Type 81 rifle is well known for its excellent reliability and accuracy. The Type 81 assault rifle and Type 81 squad machine gun is likely to remain in service with the PLA for at least another decade.

http://www.sinodefence.com/army/individual/rifle_81.asp

QZB series: The NORINCO QBZ-95 ASSAULT WEAPONS SYSTEM is a bull-pup family of weapons chambered for the "mysterious" new 5.8x42mm-Chinese ammunition. This probably, a modification of the classic 5.75-Russian cartridge, with a penetration coefficient increased. You can see the difference between this and the pic of the QBZ97 because of the different magazines. It has a S-E-3-F trigger group and is NOT employable by left-handed personnel, althrough it can fit all either STANAG or chinese optionals, such as grenade lauchers (the USA M203, but also a chinese copy of it), 4x optics, scopes (see the various pics posted along). This weapon was seen for the first time in the hands of the chinese troops in Hong Kong, but it shortly thereafter entered service qith the Chinese Army Special Forces, and it will soon replace the AK47 with all the chinese troops and police.

The QBZ-95 ASSAULT WEAPONS SYSTEM along with the QBZ-95, features 3 other weapons: the CAR-95 (a carbine version of the QBZ-95), the KBU-88 (a semi-auto sniper rifle), and the QBB-95 (a Squad Automatic Weapon). All of them come chambered in the 5.8x42mm-Chinese ammunition, and the CAR-95 and QBB-95 have the same S-E-3-F as the QBZ-95.

http://www.securityarms.com/20010315.../1700/1722.htm



there is no such comments or statements that says the insas rifle is superior than the qbz 95.

the insas rifle looks more like an ak74, though less reliable and less accurate

why the 20round mag?? save ammo?


lol, dont compare j-8s with mig 21s, because they are NOT even in the same generation, which is a term used to define the genre of planes

fc-1 jf-17 is does not even look like the mig-23, its not even swing-wing

man, the link http://www.pmulcahy.com/aircraft/chinese_fighters.htm does not even lead me to the qu0ote: Quote:
The bulk of China's air force fleet is obsolete. All but a handful of its 4,000 fighters, 400 ground-attack aircraft, and 120 bombers are based on 1950s and 1960s technology. The vast majority of these aircraft are well over a decade old, and many will reach the end of their service lives during the next 10 years and are slated to be retired with only limited numbers of replacement aircraft likely to enter the air force inventory.

In the early 1990s, China introduced some two dozen Russian-made Su-27 advanced tactical fighters into its air force. While more acquisitions are likely, their pace and scale will be incremental and will not fundamentally upset Asia's airpower balance. And even with additional planes, the size of China's fighter fleet will shrink dramatically during the next 10 years, likely ending up only half as large in 2005 as it is today.


and again ur neglecting artillery infomation in mountain warefare, read a book and findout, because despite ur statement i still believe u havent had time to learn about it

in mountain warefare, especially chinese mountain divisioins, mortars are the key artillery units, not gunhowtizers, most of the mountian howtizers are the 122mm d30, which more or less is very effective as seen in the sino-viet war
February 21st, 2005  
Peter Pan
 
Quote:
and again ur neglecting artillery infomation in mountain warefare, read a book and findout, because despite ur statement i still believe u havent had time to learn about it
Lemontree does not have to read any book on warfare. He has had adequate time to learn and practice against live enemy at that!

He IS an Army officer. :P
February 22nd, 2005  
MadeInChina
 
really, but still, im talking about mountain warefare here

he shoujld read sun tzu's art of war
February 22nd, 2005  
Peter Pan
 
Quote:
really, but still, im talking about mountain warefare here
Didn't understand the connection.

All officers are posted in the mountains and we have a whole lot of mountains. Therefore, all are qualified for mountain warfare and have practical experience which is better than books.

Sun Tsu is also read.
February 22nd, 2005  
EagleZtrike
 
 
MAN WILL YOU GUYS STOP THE INDIA VS CHINA STUFF
Btw I've noticed a dramatic increase of Indian members here. Is it a coincidence or are they all from the same regional area knowing each other. Also AA has some very good posts backed up with actual information.
February 22nd, 2005  
MadeInChina
 
the concept of strategy and tactics is, i think, more important than actual training or experience because it is the basic outline of experienced good strategies and intelligent theories

believe me read the book, its like everything one should know when it comes to strategy

well ok, u guys knows alot about mountain warefare rite?? alrite, then i think u guys knows the impotance of machineguns mortars, grenades and mountain howtizers rite?
February 22nd, 2005  
Xion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleStrike
MAN WILL YOU GUYS STOP THE INDIA VS CHINA STUFF
Btw I've noticed a dramatic increase of Indian members here. Is it a coincidence or are they all from the same regional area knowing each other. Also AA has some very good posts backed up with actual information.
heh ?

The posts by Peter Pan and lemontree are much more detailed than AA or any other Chinese and backed up with much more info, not kiddie talk like Sexybeast who got a temporary ban twice or thrice.Seems this EagleStrike guy doesn't read all the posts or something or maybe some Chinese disguised as an american or is really extremely partial.

I've also noticed a dramatic increase of Chinese members here, but i never complained , i dunno what is this guys problem.

This guy is already talking as if he's some moderator or owns this forum.

I don't know lemontree or any other indian on this forum, but just look at this post by lemontree..

Quote:
Originally Posted by lemontree
EagleStrike,
Try to avoid nasty private messages. It is rather brave of you to abuse someone sitting miles away, you showed some maturity.