India's Army... Part II - Page 4




 
--
Boots
 
February 15th, 2005  
Sexybeast
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwordFish_13
Hi,

Quote:
well why india try to claim tibet before?
Who said India clamed Tibet ? ..........India never clamed Tibet ............we just recognises it as a Seperate Soverign Country of Tibetains ?




Peace
-=SF_13=
not whole tibet, but part of it, there are 300 thousand km square of lands in tibet area are the disputed lands between china and india
February 15th, 2005  
Sexybeast
 
i still have serious doubts of India's weapon industry's capability..

like the gun barrel burst incident.....
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...india/t-72.htm

or the arjun incident
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ndia/arjun.htm
February 15th, 2005  
Xion
 
sexybeast you should first go and read more stuff before asking casual questions like ....."why did india claim tibet ?" ..this is like some 12 year old kids fighting...


http://sinoindianwar.50megs.com


regarding the weapons capability you should do the same instead of always trying to find the negative things....

If you seriously are interested in discussions about India go here

www.protonriver.com
--
Boots
February 15th, 2005  
Xion
 
this is offtopic but just coming down to the level sexybeast talks in...

china mining disaster ..dude chinese ppl don't know how mining works it seems..lots of problems ..loads of ppl are being killed month after month....I think china should focus more on training their unskilled ppl and providing safety measures rather than buying military equipment and making ICBMs

http://journalism.berkeley.edu/proje...es/004127.html

http://www.boston.com/news/world/asi...ing_disasters/

Quote:
-- Feb. 15, 2005: An explosion in Sunjiawan coal mine in Liaoning province kills at least 203.

-- Nov. 28, 2004: An explosion in the state-run Chenjiashan Coal Mine in the northwestern province of Shaanxi kills 166 miners.

-- Oct. 20, 2004: An explosion blamed on high gas levels in a mine in the central province of Henan kills 148.

-- June 20, 2002: An explosion in the Chengzihe Coal Mine near the northeastern city of Jixi kills 124.

-- June 17, 2001: An underground flood blamed on miners drilling into an adjacent shaft and unleashing a torrent of water in the Lajiapo tin mine in the southern Guangxi region kills 81.

-- Sept. 27, 2000: A gas buildup blamed on lack of ventilation and ignited by a mining lamp at the Muchonggou mine in the southern province of Guizhou province kills 162.

-- Nov. 27, 1996: At least 91 miners die in a gas explosion at the Dongcun mine near Datong, a city in the northwestern province of Shanxi.

-- April 21, 1991: A gas explosion in the Sanjiaohe coal mine in Shanxi province kills at least 147 miners.

-- April 25, 1942: An accident in a coal mine near Benxi in Japanese-occupied Manchuria kills 1,549 miners in the world's worst mining disaster on record.
February 15th, 2005  
Peter Pan
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexybeast
i still have serious doubts of India's weapon industry's capability..

like the gun barrel burst incident.....
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...india/t-72.htm

or the arjun incident
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ndia/arjun.htm
Sexybeast,

The USS Thresher and the Soviet sub Kursk sank.

Does it mean that one should have serious doubts about the US and Russian military industries?
February 15th, 2005  
Peter Pan
 
Quote:
not trying to flame up china vs india, but the truth is, at the moment, china would gain the upper hand in a fight against india.
Gingerbread,

Fine.

Just lets know her initial, intermediate and termonal objectives.

And the modus operandi of achieving the same.
February 15th, 2005  
SwordFish_13
 
 
Hi,

All this boils down to the fact it if you start developing Something ............ there willl be faliors ............ Just taking one Example of Arjun tank or barrel Burt all the time and saying that the Whole wepons industy is .

**SIGH**

Arjun Tank is a Achivement of India ........... even if the tank naver gets Developed ............ it's a good learning Experience ............ we all start somewhere .

Our Computer Teacher During our Programming Classes always said "If you are not getting Errors in your program for a Long time check it again there might be some serious problem with it .......... you are expected to get error"


A Faliour is the First step to sucess........... How hard is it Understand

Peace
-=SF_13=-
February 15th, 2005  
Peter Pan
 
[quote="gingerbeard"]

Quote:
so, what the low stratefied going to do with the fighting? and also very few local resources as u mention, china has beaten india in this situation in 1962 while china's infrastructure is even worse than india's.
If you understood conduct of warfare, I am sure you would have understood the implications.

I hope you read what I write. Apparently not, since you ride your favourite hobby horse.

Now, let me give it pointwise:

1. In 1962, the McMohan Line had mere Speial Intelligence Bureau personnel (police check posts).

2. Troops were sent to check the Chinese. From sea level to High 'Altitude with summer clothing. Try working the at that altitude without acclimatisation. I hope you have seen heights 10,000 feet and above. I hope you have heard of 'High Altitude Sickness' and 'Pulmonary Oedema'.

3. The attacker has the Initiative - military principle world over. Too voluminous to explain on a web board.

4. The Chinese were acclimatised since the were already on the Tibetan Plateau.

5. The Indian troops did not have the advantage of even knowing the terrain.

6. The had to dig the defences simultaneous to the Chinese attacks.

7. The gaps between the defended localities were at times in terms of 10s of miles. Thus the gaps were WIDE.

8. The Indian Army was not as big as it is now and so reserves were limited.

If you understand warfare, you will understand the implications of these factors.

If not, you are welcome.

Quote:
"Neither China nor India have any advantage in the area. 1962 is because the troop density was low and gap wide...very wide and there were no equipment to fight in high altitude nor any experience. Now it is a different kettle of fish"

then how come, with all the infrstructure advantages of india has in 1960s can still be beaten by china easily? why do u think china has no advantage? the railway, the modern technology and the improvement the chinese army has made is already an advantage.
There was no infrastructure in 1962 on the Indian side. Just high mountains and foot tracks and some mule tracks. No roads or roadheads.

The railway in Tibet will enhance Chinese mobilisation. Modern technology will improve weapons. But in the final analysis it is the man behind the weapon. In 1962 he walked in, this time it will be a tad different a proposition.

What is the advantage that the Chinese Army has. Do specify. It is rather difficult to answer 'general' question/ statement.

Quote:
of course u aint going to fight on top of mount everest. but there is land there u can fight in, where do u think 1962 war happened?
You tell me since you seem to know.

Quote:
i think china would know its land better than india. so my opinion is that if india invade china, china would gain the upper hand. no matter which part it is, due to the factors i said before.
What leads you to believe that India is keen to attack China?
February 15th, 2005  
Peter Pan
 
Quote:
now india, both lackin in educated workforce and industry, which is behind china. not to mention its economy and its not even enough to feed its own people.
"Finland, the small Scandinavian nation, boasts the world's "most competitive" economy, beating the United States and fellow Scandinavian Sweden for top honors,

Taiwan and Singapore, ranked fifth and sixth, are Asia's top scorers,

China, the world's most populous nation and widely perceived as a comer on the international scene, placed a disappointing 44th, bogged down by "the perceived quality of its public institutions," its lack of judicial independence and a nagging sense of public corruption."

http://www.forbes.com/2003/10/31/cx_da_1031topnews.html

What makes you feel that Indian industries are not world class or that our education is not world class?

Personal bias?


Quote:
singapor is also has the lowest corruption rate and highest income rate in the world. but that doesnt mean it has a gd military. u see the logic is flawed. it also depends how much u spend of military but how much u spend is also affected by the infastructure of the country, which better infrastructure will produce better educated workforce too.
so in fact, when u have a good infrastructure, the less u need to spend for the quality same as a country whose infrastructure is poorer.
Money build infrastructure. Now, whatever makes you feel that the Indian infrastructure is less than the Chinese? The issue to remember is that India is a democracy. China is a totalitarian regime. In China you can order around the population, in India you can't. In China you can keep industrial disasters quiet, in a democracy you can't. What bout the little that comes to the world media like the repeated mine disasters and the silence on SARS? If it happened in India, it would be world news for days with commentaries how bad the Indian infrastructure is. So, media can make things look positive or negative.

Have you read in Readers Digest of the concentration camps and all the brainwashing done? Now, that China has been rehabilitated, do you get to read such stories in the Readers Digest? No.

So, don't build ideas on media alone. Interact and learn.

Quote:
there is already enough evidence shown that china military infrastructure is better than india's previously in other threads. i aint going to post them here since its not about china's army. go to china's army's doctrine thread and china's army.
Show me the evidence. You seem to be an expert in generalised statements and a great believer in the concept of ''Gospel truths'. FYI, I am a member of the China Defence Forum and a friend of Col Wu. So, should I say, I am aware?

Quote:
you got to know china in history has always mobileised its huge army. during 1200s, china had 1 million imperial guards (emperors' bodyguards) and not to mention its regulars, and having expedition as far as korea and manchuria. and in teh Min dynasty during Ningxia campiagn, it moved 400 artillary (cannons, trebuchets etc....) pieces over 300 miles of difficult terrian.
Again may I help you. Manpower is not evrything. Quality of that manpower is more important. WWII Beginning should teach. Germans vs the Rest .

Quote:
india's army hs been successful recently in modernising its army, but not to a level that can rival china at the moment.
I am a pragmatic man. I am not a votary of the tripe that is seen in the "Which is the Best Army in the World" type of threads.

I will present facts, but I won't shove it down the gullet since it doesn't help anyone.
February 15th, 2005  
gingerbeard
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xion
this is offtopic but just coming down to the level sexybeast talks in...

china mining disaster ..dude chinese ppl don't know how mining works it seems..lots of problems ..loads of ppl are being killed month after month....I think china should focus more on training their unskilled ppl and providing safety measures rather than buying military equipment and making ICBMs

http://journalism.berkeley.edu/proje...es/004127.html

http://www.boston.com/news/world/asi...ing_disasters/

Quote:
-- Feb. 15, 2005: An explosion in Sunjiawan coal mine in Liaoning province kills at least 203.

-- Nov. 28, 2004: An explosion in the state-run Chenjiashan Coal Mine in the northwestern province of Shaanxi kills 166 miners.

-- Oct. 20, 2004: An explosion blamed on high gas levels in a mine in the central province of Henan kills 148.

-- June 20, 2002: An explosion in the Chengzihe Coal Mine near the northeastern city of Jixi kills 124.

-- June 17, 2001: An underground flood blamed on miners drilling into an adjacent shaft and unleashing a torrent of water in the Lajiapo tin mine in the southern Guangxi region kills 81.

-- Sept. 27, 2000: A gas buildup blamed on lack of ventilation and ignited by a mining lamp at the Muchonggou mine in the southern province of Guizhou province kills 162.

-- Nov. 27, 1996: At least 91 miners die in a gas explosion at the Dongcun mine near Datong, a city in the northwestern province of Shanxi.

-- April 21, 1991: A gas explosion in the Sanjiaohe coal mine in Shanxi province kills at least 147 miners.

-- April 25, 1942: An accident in a coal mine near Benxi in Japanese-occupied Manchuria kills 1,549 miners in the world's worst mining disaster on record.
well u got to know there are more accidents in india than chinese. u got to know too that news only report accident, why do u think news would report each day about successful mining in china? some parts of china is poor and some parts are not, of course the poor part is undeveloped so u cant really say chinese dunno mining.

its like when USAF practice using the F-16, then crashes a few times, then u r saying that USAF should learn to fly.