India-China exercise set to begin

[SwordFish_13]

Hi,

Source:BBC News

India and China are due to begin a joint military exercise, the first of its kind between the world's two largest armies.

The exercise is taking place between 20 and 28 December in China's Chengdu military region.

It will involve a company of troops each, just over 100 officers and men, from both sides.

India and China fought a brief but bloody border war in October 1962 over a disputed Himalayan frontier.

The situation eased after the two countries signed a treaty for peace and tranquillity in 1993, agreeing to reduce troop levels on the borders.

Nearly 100 Indian soldiers have arrived in China for the exercise, according to reports.

These troops have been picked up from forces fighting insurgencies in restive north-eastern India and Indian-administered Kashmir, reports said.

Indian forces are carrying their personal weapons, light machine guns and mortars. The armoury - tanks, helicopter gunships and unmanned aerial vehicles - are being provided by the Chinese army.

'Intrusions'

"War games are aimed at building and promoting positive military relations, inter-operatability and to undertake joint operations in counter insurgency," Indian army spokesman Brig SK Chatterjee told the Press Trust of India news agency.

Ties between the two countries remained tense after the brief war in 1962.

During an Indian high altitude military exercise called Operation Chequerboard in 1987, the two armies nearly went to war again.

Indian guard in Arunachal Pradesh
Indian troops have a long-standing border dispute with China

In between, both sides patrolled the desolate frontier aggressively and skirmishes were not infrequent.

India and China signed an agreement on defence cooperation in May 2006 during the visit of former Indian Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee to China.

Last year, China agreed to reopen the strategic Nathu La pass to border trade, thereby accepting Sikkim as a part of India.

But in the last year China appeared to be uncomfortable with India's growing strategic ties with US, cemented through a series of joint exercises, including the huge five nation naval exercise in the Bay of Bengal, this year.

In recent months, Indian border forces reported more and more Chinese "intrusions" across the disputed border even as Beijing stepped up its rhetoric on the disputed frontier, reiterating its claims to the northeast Indian state of Arunachal Pradesh.

Analysts say visit of Congress party chief Sonia Gandhi to China last month has helped put the bilateral relations back on the right track, and China appears to be no longer objecting to the India-US nuclear deal that had initially upset it.

Peace
-=SF_13=-

 

[rock45]

By the numbers

I'm sure this exercise will be boring with both side playing by the numbers and not showing the other side anything good. China will have more intelligence personnel standing in the shadow and watching then real soldiers in the exercise. Key intelligence personnel will pick up the secret way the Indian soldiers drop the mortar rounds into the mortars!:roll:

I'm interest in the Chinese Russian exercise last year if anybody can add anything very little of what happen was reported. That exercise involved aircraft, helicopters, artillery, and ground troops.

 

[Pale Rider]

I'm sure this exercise will be boring with both side playing by the numbers and not showing the other side anything good. China will have more intelligence personnel standing in the shadow and watching then real soldiers in the exercise. Key intelligence personnel will pick up the secret way the Indian soldiers drop the mortar rounds into the mortars!:roll:

I'm interest in the Chinese Russian exercise last year if anybody can add anything very little of what happen was reported. That exercise involved aircraft, helicopters, artillery, and ground troops.

Pretty much consisted of airborne assets, turned into a dog and pony show with the Chinese not happy with the way some of their armored vehicles stacked up to the Russian vehicles.

 

[rock45]

Chinese vehicles

I always wanted know more about the Chinese military equipment I go to the http://www.sinodefence.com/, and read the different things said about the equipment but don't know enough about the equipment specs to know if it's real or not. Are there type-98/99 tanks any good or do there SP guns have the same range as our? I try to take notice in some world conflicts where Chinese weapons may be use to try get a feel but little info comes out the smaller African wars. They seem to sell everything under the sun and more but I don't see a lot of main stream countries buying there gear. I assume there weapons could be and are massed produced, low labor cost for production, seems like a good mixture for large arms purchases. Yet I can't seem to find them? Like Iran and China have good relations why doesn't Iran buy up hundreds of type-99 tanks instead of using old American and Russian types? Always willing to learn.

 

[Pale Rider]

I always wanted know more about the Chinese military equipment I go to the http://www.sinodefence.com/, and read the different things said about the equipment but don't know enough about the equipment specs to know if it's real or not. Are there type-98/99 tanks any good or do there SP guns have the same range as our? I try to take notice in some world conflicts where Chinese weapons may be use to try get a feel but little info comes out the smaller African wars. They seem to sell everything under the sun and more but I don't see a lot of main stream countries buying there gear. I assume there weapons could be and are massed produced, low labor cost for production, seems like a good mixture for large arms purchases. Yet I can't seem to find them? Like Iran and China have good relations why doesn't Iran buy up hundreds of type-99 tanks instead of using old American and Russian types? Always willing to learn.

Ah yes - I have been on this site, one must remember that China does censor what gets placed on that site regardless what is stated.

1. Their equipment is really not that bad seeings how Russia has given them assistance with some of their weapons platforms, Artillery is on par with the U.S as far as range goes, still lacking in some of the electronics sophistication compared to ours. Type 98/99 MBT is a very capable tank with countries like France and Ukraine offering assistance from siting systems and armor layout, I honestly feel that this tank has the potential to fire a more potent KE projectile over any Russian tank including T-90 series due to enlarging the hull from the basic Russian T-72 hull, the turret is all welded with western type composite armor matched with ERA. Also the Type 98/99 should be able to upgrade its maingun to a bigger caliber if needed and China is currently testing this with the Russian 135mm and a 140mm that they have designed, so they say. Yes they do sell weapons systems to Iran and Iam suspect that China may have given them the armor design/layout for the Zulfiqar MBT which is Irans newest MBT, China has also sold them APCs and Type 59 and 69 MBTs in the past also. Pakistan is currentely fielding the Al Khalid MBT which China designed along with some assistane from Ukraine for the Pakistani Army, What was surprising was the purchase of China latest SP gun to Kuwait with more orders to follow in Algeria and Pakistan.

Also as a side note - Iran does manufacture the T-72 MBT with their own ERA in country.

 

[rock45]

Russian 135mm and a 140mm

Can a Russian 135mm and a 140mm penetrate through our tanks front armor? I didn't know China slip in a SP gun to Kuwait with more orders to follow in Algeria and Pakistan. Thought Kuwait was a US shop now since we save there ass? Been reading a little about how Algeria is displeased with a few of the Mig-29 delivered and now there's problems with some sort of natural gas deal going wrong between Russian and Algeria, maybe China will slip in? There is a order for a few hundred T-90s maybe some Chinese made type 98/99 will get as well as some FC-1 as Mig-29 SMT replacements? I don't think China produces diesel subs yet. I wish there were a general price list for a few of these items I wonder if China under sells Russia on artillery and armor? I did notice how China covers some western size cannon/gun 105mm and 155mm, I don't think Russia does? Seems like a smart way to cover both sides of the market right?

Thanks I pick up a few things I usually follow military aviation topics and not too strong in ground warfare.

 

[Pale Rider]

There is always the potential that a 125mm can penetrate the frontal armor on all current Western tanks currently being fielded, just depends on what projectile you bring to the gunfight.

Algeria will have their last batch of T-90SA delivered around mid April time frame.

China doesn`t market the Type 98/99 as of yet, it should be more advanced than Al Khalid as stated by China.

Here is some photos of Kuwait using their new toys from China:

 

[rock45]

Looks good

Thanks for the pictures
They look good and look like they can bring down some hurt down range. Why didn't Kuwait buy ours or is China a major importer of there oil? Either way I feel a little slighted they wouldn't have a country if not United States Armed Forces. They should be buying a second squadron of F/A-18 Hornets as well there going on 15 years old almost.

If a modern fire control system could be fitted in a T-72 could the tank be a functional main battle tank? Or is the tank layout just bad and too many changes need to be made? The little I know about tank warfare you must be able to fire on the move and be mobile. I didn't see that in 1991 Gulf War being done by the Iraqi's in any of military channel's shows. Russia didn't seem to produce the T-80 in the same numbers as the T-72, and now were in the T-90 era. I wonder if Russia has the money or capabilities to replace all there older tanks with modern T-90 model? Sometimes I think Russia produced more advance Flankers for India and China then they did for themselves. Russia already sold India around 300 T-90s I wonder if Russia has that many active?

 

[Pale Rider]

M109 series SP howitzers have been around now since Vietnam and it is time that we make a change, M109A6 the most modern upgrade is a good system but for some reason we elected not to go with a longer Ordanance barrel like everyone else.

Kuwait actually made a recent purchase proposal for some additional Apache helicopters and Patriot 3 upgrade kits for their Patriots.

The T-80 has always been the premier Russian tank that was issued to their more elite units, especially the ones in the Former GDR, Russian went with two tank designs due to the cost and time it took to build a T-80 series tank, but during a war time footing you would see the T-72 rolling off the assembly lines due to ease in design, cost and ease of assembly. Lets call the T-90 for what it really is, and that would be a modified T-72. After the Chechen and first Gulf War Russian tank clients lost interest in their tanks due to amount lost in both conflicts. Is it feasible that you can put in a new FCS into the T-72 and make it a potent opponent, With the T-90 they do have a advanced FCS and a new welded turret design that they tout offers just as good protection as modern Western tanks like Leo2 A5/6, Challie 2 or M1A2, What do I think of this claim, it is pure rubbish, I have been on a ROK T-80U and a Ukrainian T-84 and know what the armor layout is. K5 ceramic tiles may offer some benefit for older KE penetrators but the latest generation ones no way. Russia may upgrade some of their T-80s but that will be a small amount, the Russian factories have closed their doors for this model, and the Ukrainians has the real main facilities.

Russia has maybe around 300 - 400 T-90s in their inventory.