mmarsh
Active member
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Incredible Shrinking Democratic Party
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Chief Bones
Forums Grumpy Old Man
Cyclical majority .......
I disagree with the premise as delineated by your subject line.
I do NOT believe the Democratic party is REALLY shrinking. Democrats (historically speaking), have included voters, who for personal reasons, have been known to at times split their ticket ..... namely, splitting their ticket because a certain candidate is more in line philosophically with the voter's beliefs or because they are upset with the Democrats that presently hold office. Polls have indicated that fewer Republicans have done so.
This election was no exception. Many Democrats are disenchanted with Obama's policies and stance on a host of issues (including the Health Care Bill). On top of that, many voters are upset that Obama (and his administration), have fallen short of keeping the promises that elevated him to the people's choice for President of the United States.
While the vote was overwhelmingly lopsided and Republican, the Democratic Party is NOT dead. Politics are cyclical in nature .. and .. Democrats will in the future, again be the majority party.
I disagree with the premise as delineated by your subject line.
I do NOT believe the Democratic party is REALLY shrinking. Democrats (historically speaking), have included voters, who for personal reasons, have been known to at times split their ticket ..... namely, splitting their ticket because a certain candidate is more in line philosophically with the voter's beliefs or because they are upset with the Democrats that presently hold office. Polls have indicated that fewer Republicans have done so.
This election was no exception. Many Democrats are disenchanted with Obama's policies and stance on a host of issues (including the Health Care Bill). On top of that, many voters are upset that Obama (and his administration), have fallen short of keeping the promises that elevated him to the people's choice for President of the United States.
While the vote was overwhelmingly lopsided and Republican, the Democratic Party is NOT dead. Politics are cyclical in nature .. and .. Democrats will in the future, again be the majority party.
mmarsh
Active member
Well said Chief
And I will say that Obama did make some mistakes that contributed to people staying away or voting Republican: For example
1. They didn't sell the healthcare Act. They let the GOP spin machine blow it out of proportions without even trying to defend it. As Herman Goering once said "the bigger the lie the more people will believe it". And Obama inexplicably decided not to confront the liars.
2. Obama nominated a very pro-Wall Street economic team at a time where Wall Street was a popular as stomach flu. These people namely Geitner and Summers told Obama if he fixed Wall Street (and didnt punish it for their role in the economic catastrophy) it would in turn fix Main Street by proxy.
Well, Wall Street got fixed as is in recovery, but unemployment stayed at 10%. So the public saw bankers get richer and their neighbors houses in foreclosure and it made people very angry. Democratic voters (who tend to be Middle Class) saw this as a betrayal, favoring the rich over the middle class is supposed to be a GOP strategy.
3. And lastly was the message. Theres a saying in DC that I feel is 100% true: "The GOP is terrified of its base, the Democrats hate their base". Several White House Staffers (Emmanual and Gibbs) got caught bashing their own base in public. Its one thing to ignore the people who got you elected, but to public insult them because they criticize your elections is just stupid.
Its this that what cost the Democrats the last election, not a repudiation of Democratic principals as some people would like us to believe.
Chukpike
Banned
"Now do you what to have a real conversation on the Democratic Party or do you want to keep pussyfooting around?" mmarsh
It might have been interesting to have a discussion. To bad you refused your own suggestion.
Your refusal to discuss the Democratic Party, after making the above statement, indicates who the Troll really is.
Your ignoring of the problems Democrats are facing with the voters may give a real time example of why they are having problems. They are doing the same thing. They are not coming out and addressing the issues, they are not offering solutions, they are just whining about and are more worried about what the Republicans are doing.
In short they are "pussyfooting around".
That would explain a lot about why the Democratic Party is shrinking.
The shrinking of the Democratic Party is what the article explains:
"Geographically, Democrats were largely pushed out of states where the party believed it had made lasting inroads, such as Indiana, Ohio, Virginia and Wisconsin. The result is a national electoral map that more closely resembles that of the early 2000s, with the Democrats by and large confined to the East and West coasts, with the GOP dominating the heartland and the South." LA Times
Neither the article nor I indicated a belief that the Democratic Party was dead. What the article does indicate is that the Democrats were losing votes form women and younger voters which traditionally have been strong areas for them. While the Republicans made gains, I don't think it was a lopsided election.
mmarsh whiny attitude may very well mirror what voters see in the Democratic Party. Voters are tired of finger pointing and the fact that the Democrats accomplished little economically in the last two years even though they controlled the Congress, Senate and the Presidency.
It might have been interesting to have a discussion. To bad you refused your own suggestion.
Your refusal to discuss the Democratic Party, after making the above statement, indicates who the Troll really is.
Your ignoring of the problems Democrats are facing with the voters may give a real time example of why they are having problems. They are doing the same thing. They are not coming out and addressing the issues, they are not offering solutions, they are just whining about and are more worried about what the Republicans are doing.
In short they are "pussyfooting around".
That would explain a lot about why the Democratic Party is shrinking.
The shrinking of the Democratic Party is what the article explains:
"Geographically, Democrats were largely pushed out of states where the party believed it had made lasting inroads, such as Indiana, Ohio, Virginia and Wisconsin. The result is a national electoral map that more closely resembles that of the early 2000s, with the Democrats by and large confined to the East and West coasts, with the GOP dominating the heartland and the South." LA Times
Neither the article nor I indicated a belief that the Democratic Party was dead. What the article does indicate is that the Democrats were losing votes form women and younger voters which traditionally have been strong areas for them. While the Republicans made gains, I don't think it was a lopsided election.
mmarsh whiny attitude may very well mirror what voters see in the Democratic Party. Voters are tired of finger pointing and the fact that the Democrats accomplished little economically in the last two years even though they controlled the Congress, Senate and the Presidency.
mmarsh
Active member
Chukpike
Still arguing sentence semantics I see, it obviously saves you from discussing the topic as per usual. Perhaps you think I care about such nonsense? I don't. Which is why I didn't even read what you wrote, your not a conservative, your're just boring. I am smart enough not to get dragged into stupid arguments made by very childish people.
Suffice it to say and I this is has been echoed by mostly everyone, except for yourself because you don't want to admit its true. The Democratic party really isn't shrinking, elections are cyclical in nature, in 2012 it could be the GOP that is on the receiving end of an electoral drubbing, especially if there is a schism between the establishment and its more radical elements. This single election is too small a sampling to determine what the political mood is or will be. This election was anti-establishment vote, not a anti-democrat one. So Enjoy your victory, but don't think you can draw any long term conclusions about how small the democrat party is going to be...
Still arguing sentence semantics I see, it obviously saves you from discussing the topic as per usual. Perhaps you think I care about such nonsense? I don't. Which is why I didn't even read what you wrote, your not a conservative, your're just boring. I am smart enough not to get dragged into stupid arguments made by very childish people.
Suffice it to say and I this is has been echoed by mostly everyone, except for yourself because you don't want to admit its true. The Democratic party really isn't shrinking, elections are cyclical in nature, in 2012 it could be the GOP that is on the receiving end of an electoral drubbing, especially if there is a schism between the establishment and its more radical elements. This single election is too small a sampling to determine what the political mood is or will be. This election was anti-establishment vote, not a anti-democrat one. So Enjoy your victory, but don't think you can draw any long term conclusions about how small the democrat party is going to be...
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Seehund
Banned
A viewpoint from a European
To me the problem with backing the Republican Party or the Democratic Party in the hope to fix the state of the Republic is just like fighting cancer with cancer. Would you go to a doctor who tells you that the only way to fight off a deadly cancer is with another, less lethal form of cancer, as a way to divert from the original problem? I think the same metaphor can be used to explain the current politics in the US.
As I see it, there really is no difference between the Republicans and the Democrats. Politicians from both sides have been called out on corruption, driven up the national debt, and have passed laws limiting American's freedom. I think that the only way to stop the current pattern of constantly switching sides in hope of a better government is for the average American to stop buying into the two-party system. To stop buying into the notion of voting for the better of two evils, instead of voting for whom truly represents the voter's ideals.
There are more than two political parties in the US. Why not do some research on politicians running for office in all parties and affiliations to find out who best suits you. There are more than two choices on the ballot, or at least there should be.
To me the problem with backing the Republican Party or the Democratic Party in the hope to fix the state of the Republic is just like fighting cancer with cancer. Would you go to a doctor who tells you that the only way to fight off a deadly cancer is with another, less lethal form of cancer, as a way to divert from the original problem? I think the same metaphor can be used to explain the current politics in the US.
As I see it, there really is no difference between the Republicans and the Democrats. Politicians from both sides have been called out on corruption, driven up the national debt, and have passed laws limiting American's freedom. I think that the only way to stop the current pattern of constantly switching sides in hope of a better government is for the average American to stop buying into the two-party system. To stop buying into the notion of voting for the better of two evils, instead of voting for whom truly represents the voter's ideals.
There are more than two political parties in the US. Why not do some research on politicians running for office in all parties and affiliations to find out who best suits you. There are more than two choices on the ballot, or at least there should be.
The US has always been a 2 Party system. The "debt & limiting freedom" thing is only too true. There are control freeks on both sides, but seems the left gives more lip service to freedom, butn only if you support thier views. Prot was the last big Independant Prez candidate & all he actually did was give the Presidency to Clinton. The Libertarian Party is in favor of limited Govt & as much personal freedom as possible. Unfortunately that has elements that attract & repel both sides. Don't see them becoming a major force. The Republican Party Leadership is still dominated by the Big Govt types that ran things under Bush. The TEA Party is 60% Rep, & 40% Independants & Democrates upset with the sharp Left turn that has occured the last 2 years. Maybe they can shove things to the Center. Funny how the Libs accomplices in the Press call them Extreme Right Wing while pretending the Extreme Left Wing(by US standards) Obama, Pelosi, Ried,ect. is perfectly normal people.
Chukpike
Banned
Spoken like a true politician; has nothing to say, but says it anyway.:lol:
"Still arguing sentence semantics I see,".......
"Which is why I didn't even read what you wrote" quote mmarsh
I will leave it to others to assess your credibility. If you didn't read what I wrote, why was your first comment about what I wrote?
Just merrily trolling along.
mmarsh
Active member
Thank you for the compliment about me being suitable for politics, Ill take it under advisement.
Don't you worry about my relationship with others. I have been here 5 years everyone here knows me, whether they agree with me or not. I can stand on my reputation. Can you say the same? You would be surprised, how many people here REALLY don't like you. Lets just say that if you ever were banned here..nobody is going to be rushing to your defense. You remember that the next time you piss off a moderator.
As for trolling: I learned from a master didn't I? Though even I will admit that I doubt I could reach your level of being an assh*** even if I had the desire.
Chief Bones
Forums Grumpy Old Man
Changing the color on a map, doesn't mean there isn't a political presence of the other party still left in a state. It DOESN'T represent a shrinking of the party either. All it really represents, is the fact that there was at least one more vote for one party than for the other.
Parties wax and wain based upon what this election cycle's pet issues are. One election, the Republicans better represent America's issues and concerns, and the next election the Democrats do. As I said in my other post, politics is cyclical ... this years 'in' party, is out of power next election cycle, and then it goes round and round and round ad-infinitum.
Need I remind you of where the Republicans were the last time they got their bums waxed. Independents and Republicans crossed over, to vote the Democrats into power ... this time around, Independents and some Democrats crossed over to give the Republicans back the House.
IT DOESN'T REPRESENT ANYTHING MORE THAN IT WAS THE REPUBLICANS TURN THIS PART OF THE POLITICAL CYCLE, TO HAVE A MAJORITY ... NOTHING MORE, AND NOTHING LESS.
Parties wax and wain based upon what this election cycle's pet issues are. One election, the Republicans better represent America's issues and concerns, and the next election the Democrats do. As I said in my other post, politics is cyclical ... this years 'in' party, is out of power next election cycle, and then it goes round and round and round ad-infinitum.
Need I remind you of where the Republicans were the last time they got their bums waxed. Independents and Republicans crossed over, to vote the Democrats into power ... this time around, Independents and some Democrats crossed over to give the Republicans back the House.
IT DOESN'T REPRESENT ANYTHING MORE THAN IT WAS THE REPUBLICANS TURN THIS PART OF THE POLITICAL CYCLE, TO HAVE A MAJORITY ... NOTHING MORE, AND NOTHING LESS.
Chukpike
Banned
Yes, you can stand on your reputation.
You commonly resort to name calling, whining, and a threatening(idle) posture when you can't support your position on issues any other way.
Your use of tactics shared by Fred Phelps and the Westboro Church does not say much about your reputation.
Westboro Church web site: http://www.godhatesfags.com/index.html
Some people don't really consider that a particularly good reputation, but even you and the Westboro Church may have followers..
I can live with my temporary ban for disagreeing with a moderator. I didn't think a moderator should be telling people to STFU. He didn't think it was my place to point that out.
I still don't think a moderator should do that. If he thinks someone's name calling or personal attacks are out of line, then he can warn them or issue some punishment based on the forum rules. A moderator should do exactly that, moderate.
Even here your naming calling does not particularly bother me. If a moderator feels you have violated the forum rules, then they can deal with it.
It is tough for them to deal with free speech issues in an open society.
PS: "Though even I will admit that I doubt I could reach your level of being an assh*** even if I had the desire." quote mmarsh
In this I consider you an overachiever!:thumb:
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mmarsh
Active member
For someone who says "it doesn't bother me" you sound very defensive...Obviously what I said previously does bother you otherwise you wouldn't have mentioned it.
You might be surprised, but I agreed with your comments about the moderators posts. I have even told the same moderator the same thing on a different occasion. The difference was I knew to stay within my bounds while you came off as your usual ass*** self to guy who does not tolerate people who question his authority. Thats why you got banned and I didn't. You see, thats your problem. You just cant help being an 24/7 a**hole...even when you are right. Which is also the reason why nobody stuck their neck out for you that day and why nobody here likes you. Its not your views we dislike, its you personally. So I am glad you can live with your ban...the community can live with it as well.
I am not worried about the Mods. For 5 years they know that I mostly stay within bounds. They also know that you are a troll. I wouldn't count on them being too sympathetic to you as your reputation here proceeds you as does mine.
And before you wallow in pathetic self-pity and victimization know that YOU created this situation. You have been rude and disrespectful to mostly everyone since you got the day here, which is why you have no friends here. You wanted a war here and you got one. So don't come crying to me about how I chose to fight it.
And if you think I am an overachieving a**hole, you better believe I am just getting warmed up, just keep on provoking me.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
We need popcorn.
Rob Henderson
Banned
Way ahead of you.
Lawn chair? Budweiser?
Lawn chair? Budweiser?
On other Forums I've seen Emoticons eating popcorn!
Chief Bones
Forums Grumpy Old Man
Sorry boys ...
I thing that you guys need to grow up. All of this name-calling, and bleepable words, show just how immature you are.
On THIS forum, that kind of behavior is NOT tolerated. Get banned (even a temp), and you have earned it. Stop whining about it ... keep your comments to yourself, and grow up.
BTW - if you believe the other guy is showing you disrespect or has stepped across the line, then .. REPORT HIM/HER ... DON'T ADD TO THE PROBLEM BY STARTING A WORD WAR.
(Sorry - I know I am not a mod .. however ...................)
I thing that you guys need to grow up. All of this name-calling, and bleepable words, show just how immature you are.
On THIS forum, that kind of behavior is NOT tolerated. Get banned (even a temp), and you have earned it. Stop whining about it ... keep your comments to yourself, and grow up.
BTW - if you believe the other guy is showing you disrespect or has stepped across the line, then .. REPORT HIM/HER ... DON'T ADD TO THE PROBLEM BY STARTING A WORD WAR.
(Sorry - I know I am not a mod .. however ...................)
Chukpike
Banned
To add to the Democratic parties woes even foreign governments are abandoning President Obama. Not only his domestic policies have driven voters from the Democratic party. Now he has alienated the world. Far cry from the love affair right after his election.
G-20 rejection leaves U.S. to go it alone
By Don Lee, John M. Glionna and Christi Parsons, Los Angeles Times
"Reporting from Seoul, South Korea —
The Group of 20 summit ended Friday with a declaration of broad principles but no commitment to immediate action, signaling that the United States will have to go it alone in dealing with its fragile economy and near-double digit unemployment.".....
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/sc-dc-g20-summit-20101112,0,4056342.story
Reporting from Washington —
"Three days after the midterm elections, senior Obama aides suggested to a gathering of liberal groups at the White House that they might need to scale back their expectations. In the wake of the big Republican win, there would be no new major legislative pushes from President Obama in 2011....."
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-obama-struggles-20101113,0,6992945.story
While politics may be cyclical. With the mess the Democrats have made of the past two years while having full control of the Executive and Legislative branches. It is unlikely voters will rush back to the Democratic party very quickly.
mmarsh
Active member
You are right Chief...sorry, I'm done.
Chief Bones
Forums Grumpy Old Man
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
If anyone thinks Obama has alienated the world, they're having a laugh.
He's actually repaired a lot of the damage that the previous administration made but it's going to be a long time before the US regains the sort of trust that it had before 2003.
He's actually repaired a lot of the damage that the previous administration made but it's going to be a long time before the US regains the sort of trust that it had before 2003.
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