if Israel attacked Iran, Tehran would "level Tel Aviv and Haifa to the ground."

[udaka]

easy ,If the JEWS dare attack and bomb Iran, the Iranian army will launch " dead light" or " Antimatter bomb " wipe out Israli.:jump:

I am very curiosity, the people of Iranian and Arabs never massacre the JEWS like Nazi army. Why the JEWS clamo the bomb and attack Iranians and Arabs.

Because the JEWS were attacked by the European, so they come to Asia bully and attack the Asian people. Because the JEWS think the Iranians and Arabs very easy be bully when JEWS had the American nurse always back up them. So the Asian people will kick the sh!t out of ass of Israeli when they dare do the **** like that.

TEHRAN, Iran (AP) — Iran is not opposed to direct talks with the U.S. to resolve its nuclear standoff with the West, the country's top leader said Thursday in comments that appeared to soften its long-held policy of outright rejection of bilateral talks with Washington.

http://news.yahoo.com/iran-says-not-opposed-direct-talks-us-144829035.html

 

[hamidreza]

At these conditions we can continue for at least 10-15 years considering our currency and gold fund which is more than 150 billion dollars and during this time we can do many reforms in our economy system.
But the question is how many years west can continue. About the sanction they did anything they could. Crippling sanction! they can't do anything more. Also Barack Obama said that we have 1 year time before Iran makes her first nuke (although we don't want to do it).
well it seems that they are in a hurry and should decide quickly not Iran. They have 2 choices. First they could accept our leader suggestions and remove the sanction. Second they could choose war.
At war condition anything is possible but I am sure at least about 3 things.
First Iran will stop her cooperation with IAEA and cut her relation with them and will be the same as Israel which is now.
Second Iran will make her nuke just during a few months.
third world will accept Iran as a nuclear power because we make it to defense ourself not to threaten others.

So hurry up US and move your big a**. Time is finishing for you.

 

[D.J]

Mr. senojekips.
I´m a Zionist stooge? In that case, I would argue you are a useful idiot of Hamas.
But why don´t we refrain from calling each other names.
As a side note, I can tell you that are mentioned on some Israeli forums. So you´re almost a celebrity my friend :wink:
Unfortunately, this forum is also referred to as anti-Semitic on the same forums.

Mr. MontyB
I presume that you are referring to International Humanitarian Law as it was essentially stipulated in the 1949 Geneva Conventions.

The Geneva Conventions was developed for classic warfare between nations -- symmetrical shows of strength between two national armies that are essentially well-matched and clearly recognizable. But the conflict is obviously asymmetrical. Israel´s enemy is a group of terrorists that fights while in hiding and uses the civilian population as human shields. This alone is impermissible under the rules of the Geneva Conventions. The asymmetrical wars of recent years, in the Middle East, in Africa or in Afghanistan, have led to the practice of the rules being applied to such cases, albeit in modified form. If it is not possible -- be it from the air or the ground -- to identify exactly where the enemy is located and who is protected as a civilian under IHL, how can it be possible to strictly limit hostilities to combatants fighting for that enemy? As brutal as it may sound, it would be unreasonable to expect a country to accept any legal restrictions that puts it at a serious military disadvantage. It is impossible to fight terrorism without collateral damage. If I were to categorically rule out killing a terrorist if he is holding a child, I could no longer defend myself. It sounds cold and cynical but it is the reality we live in.

 

[Yossarian]

I will never judge all Jews as supporters of Israel nor target my fellow people who share some sort of faith.

My personal qualms rest with Israeli leadership and actions. Nothing more.

 

[MontyB]

Mr. senojekips.

Unfortunately, this forum is also referred to as anti-Semitic on the same forums.

But lets be honest anything that doesn't pat Israel on the arse is anti-Semitic according to Israel the problem is "Semitic" is a hijacked term anyway as almost all of the middle east is comprised of Semitic peoples.

Now from my point of view I am anti-religious I believe ALL religions should be removed from the face of the earth as they are nothing more than yolks for the masses however if I had to pick a religion to remove it would without a doubt be the Catholic one I would be hunting down first and given that I have both family and friends that are Jewish I would not consider myself by the term "anti-Semetic" but I am anti-Israeli and the two are not the same and I would also go as far as saying that how you interpret that will say more about you than me.

Mr. MontyB
I presume that you are referring to International Humanitarian Law as it was essentially stipulated in the 1949 Geneva Conventions.

The Geneva Conventions was developed for classic warfare between nations -- symmetrical shows of strength between two national armies that are essentially well-matched and clearly recognizable. But the conflict is obviously asymmetrical. Israel´s enemy is a group of terrorists that fights while in hiding and uses the civilian population as human shields. This alone is impermissible under the rules of the Geneva Conventions. The asymmetrical wars of recent years, in the Middle East, in Africa or in Afghanistan, have led to the practice of the rules being applied to such cases, albeit in modified form. If it is not possible -- be it from the air or the ground -- to identify exactly where the enemy is located and who is protected as a civilian under IHL, how can it be possible to strictly limit hostilities to combatants fighting for that enemy? As brutal as it may sound, it would be unreasonable to expect a country to accept any legal restrictions that puts it at a serious military disadvantage. It is impossible to fight terrorism without collateral damage. If I were to categorically rule out killing a terrorist if he is holding a child, I could no longer defend myself. It sounds cold and cynical but it is the reality we live in.

I am sorry but I see this whole who is a terrorist and who isn't argument is purely political and has little to do with reality and all to do with which side you happen to be on.

I think you have painted yourself into a box here as I don't see Israels enemies as a bunch of terrorists but rather a people under occupation putting up a justifiable armed resistance and as long as Hamas and co. confine themselves to killing Israelis and those providing material support to Israel then I will not consider them terrorists.
I do not see any particular difference in Hamas killing an Israeli in Bulgaria and Israel killing Hamas in say Bahrain or Hamas firing a rocket into an Israeli apartment building and Israel doing the same in the end both sides are operating on a philosophy of the ends justify the means, which means if one is a terrorist then the other isn't far behind.

 

[ScarabVenom]

just like egypt, syria, lebanon, jordan and the rest of the arab countries promised they will push us to the sea 65 years ago? we all know how that ened !
we have a saying in israel that says "
this mean : " a dog who barks doesnt bite"

Honestly, this just shows your pretty low level of knowledge. Do you know why each one of these countries said that at least? Do you understand what their situation was back then? If you did, you probably wouldn't say that.

Speaking of the dog who barks,

"The Sinai is now Israel and it is to be settled by Israelis." - Golda Meir.[FONT=&quot] <----it's not Israel neither is it settled by Israelis.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]"The 1967 war was the last of wars...after which there is nothing left for the Arabs but to plead for mercy."- Moshe Dayan <----It wasn't the last of all wars and there was something the Arabs could do besides pleading for mercy.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]That's of course besides the famous quote for Moshe Dayan that we needed American and Soviet technologies combined so we can take down the sand barrier although it ended up falling using water.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

 

[ScarabVenom]

Yep,.. you are quite correct, you don't threaten, you just flood the lands of others with illegal immigrants and occupy them killing those who resist.
It's not nice to see the truth without the candy coating is it.

Of course it won't work with you. It would be like trying to tell Himmler that Die Endlösung was a bad idea.

And killing children as well.

 

[senojekips]

Hello, hello,... I think that VDKMS has been cloned, pbbbttt :lol: Is that really you VD?,....

Mr. senojekips.
I´m a Zionist stooge? In that case, I would argue you are a useful idiot of Hamas.
But why don´t we refrain from calling each other names.
As a side note, I can tell you that are mentioned on some Israeli forums. So you´re almost a celebrity my friend :wink:

OK, lets be honest with one another from the start. I guess that is an attribute you are not really familiar with being a Zionazi stooge (you can read "Shill" if that suits you better). Firstly, "I'm no friend of yours, or any of your murdering Nazi kind". I have no need to stop telling the truth, and the fact that you don't like it, pleases me greatly, obviously you will do anything to avoid having others point out the truth eh? I guess if I'm mentioned on other pro Israeli sites it shows that Zionists are annoyed at the truth being presented to the world at large, because if my information were incorrect, they would have no need to fear what I say, as the truth is so easy to verify. The fact that you infest pro Israeli forums is a pretty good indicator that my first assessment of you was correct, you are almost without a doubt a Zionist stooge (or shill as the case may be).

Unfortunately, this forum is also referred to as anti-Semitic on the same forums.

But of course,

,... obviously you haven't been told what the rest of the world has known for many years, anyone, who tells the truth about Israel is branded "Antisemitic", a word that through constant misuse by stooges (sorry, Shills) like yourself to try and stifle legitimate criticism, has become a joke, in fact it would be closer to the truth to say, it has become an approbation to those upon whom it is bestowed.

The fact of the matter being that I'm not vaguely anti semitic, as I have many practicing Jewish relatives whom I love and admire, but I am without a shadow of a doubt, strongly "Anti Zionist". Your deliberate attempts at confusing the two issues, is a documented ploy noted by numerous organisations critical of Israel.

Let me explain it to you, "it's like the difference between being Anti German, and Anti Nazi". Verstehen Sie mich?

The old Zionist ploy of "antisemitic" branding just doesn't work anymore (and hasn't for some time) as with the coming of cheaply available camera phones and the internet, the truth is so easy to find with video clips of Zionazis beating , harassing and murdering innocent Palestinian citizens including women and children,... Oh, and we see that they are not frightened to beat up their own Rabbis and citizens who disagree with their Zionist aims either. Rabbis who point out that their own scriptures clearly demonstrate that the aims of Judaism and Zionism are almost totally and mutually exclusive.

 

[D.J]

senojekips.

In fact, I don´t consider myself a Zionist. I do believe that it is possible to be a secular Jew with a positive Jewish identity that does not in any way believe in Jewish supremacy. I consider myself, however, to be a patriot. But perhaps it´s the same as being a Zionist in your book.

For many Jews it makes no difference whether you say "I am anti-Israeli or I am anti-Jewish" they do not distinguish!

 

[senojekips]

For many Jews it makes no difference whether you say "I am anti-Israeli or I am anti-Jewish" they do not distinguish!

That is because they live in their own alternate reality, completely divorced from the civilised world with no understanding of justice or morals.

By the same token, many "real" Jews are fully aware of the crimes of Zionism. Real Jews are the people who provided the world with many of it's most noted artists, academics and philanthropists, whereas all the Zionists are noted for, is their bold faced denial of facts regarding their lies and readiness to commit War Crimes and Crimes against humanity totally without regard for International Laws and Conventions.

Zionism is Nazism - Dr. Hajo Meyer

It's time people like you woke up that you can't post your drivel on truly International sites like this and not expect people to be aware of who and what you represent.

Your throwaway line about being "a patriot", carries no more moral weight than the same phrase coming from the mouth of a member of the SS Einsatzgruppen,... I believe they all tried the same excuse and got the same reception that you will. The fact is, that if you actively support the Zionist ideals, and are willing to murder those who resist the illegal occupation of their land, the old saying applies, " if you talk like a Zionist, or commit, support or allow, crimes against humanity in the name of Zionism, the chances are that you are most certainly a Zionist.

Cheap, and easily available camera phones, and access to the internet have bought the days of unreported Israeli atrocities and News censorship to an end, their crimes are visible to anyone who wishes to look, some of them are even printed in Haaretz. http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...012-78-probes-no-indictments.premium-1.501445

 

[D.J]

So what you´re saying is that I´m not welcome here?

 

[senojekips]

So what you´re saying is that I´m not welcome here?

Not at all,... as a fellow human being I welcome you, but your rather lame attempts at defending the indefensible and generally dragging down those who proudly follow the honorable Profession of Arms, just makes you look,... how can I put it kindly?... "Childish" is a word that springs to mind,. Which if indeed you were a child, could easily be forgiven, but I'm sure that you are most certainly not a child.

 

[Team Infidel]

Everyone needs to play nice in the same sandbox. I know this is a heated topic, but please try and keep the gloves on...

 

[D.J]

Not at all,... as a fellow human being I welcome you, but your rather lame attempts at defending the indefensible and generally dragging down those who proudly follow the honorable Profession of Arms, just makes you look,... how can I put it kindly?... "Childish" is a word that springs to mind,. Which if indeed you were a child, could easily be forgiven, but I'm sure that you are most certainly not a child.

So you doubt my morals because I have been an Israeli officer?

 

[senojekips]

So you doubt my morals because I have been an Israeli officer?

No,... I couldn't care if you were an Israeli bus driver. I have no "doubts" whatsoever. No more than I would about WWII German forces member who actively and willingly supported the Nazi regime.
In a nutshell, "It's time you grew up and took some responsibility for your actions"

As stated by noted Israeli author Tony Judt.

By the age of 58 a country – like a man – should have achieved a certain maturity. After nearly six decades of existence we know, for good and for bad, who we are, what we have done and how we appear to others, warts and all. We acknowledge, however reluctantly and privately, our mistakes and our shortcomings. And though we still harbor the occasional illusion about ourselves and our prospects, we are wise enough to recognize that these are indeed for the most part just that: illusions. In short, we are adults.
But the State of Israel remains curiously (and among Western-style democracies, uniquely) immature. The social transformations of the country – and its many economic achievements – have not brought the political wisdom that usually accompanies age. Seen from the outside, Israel still comports itself like an adolescent: consumed by a brittle confidence in its own uniqueness; certain that no one “understands” it and everyone is “against” it; full of wounded self-esteem, quick to take offense and quick to give it. Like many adolescents Israel is convinced – and makes a point of aggressively and repeatedly asserting – that it can do as it wishes, that its actions carry no consequences and that it is immortal.

More,... http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2006/05/04/tony-judt-tells-israel-on-its-58th-birthday-act-your-age/

 

[MontyB]

For many Jews it makes no difference whether you say "I am anti-Israeli or I am anti-Jewish" they do not distinguish!

But to be rather blunt that is their problem as that view can only be held by those who believe all Jews are Israeli or that Israel speaks for all Jews when the reality is that there many Jews who share views about Israel not dissimilar to Spike or myself.

I think your problem is that this forum is not a particularly emotive one so throwing the usual "anti-Semitic" lines around doesn't work with people who who can differentiate between anti-Israeli and anti-Semetic.

 

[hamidreza]

But I think most of Jews are pro-Israel not anti-Israel or neutral. Maybe I am wrong. But is there any site or somethings to show us what percent of 13-14 millions Jews are pro-Israel? I see them very mysterious about this matter. It couldn't be difficult when most of them live in advanced countries and there is not any problem if they tell their opinions ( or maybe there is! I don't know)

 

[senojekips]

I'm not going to draw this out any more than absolutely necessary as I realise that it is getting right away from the subject of the thread, but I feel that in this particular case my stance with D.J. could be explained somewhat better.

I never cease to be amazed at the number of Israelis, Zionists and Zionist supporters, whom for the most part (disregarding those who fall into categories such as religious demagogues and political nutcases), I imagine are in every other sense normal rational people, who are quite willing to go on sites like this and attempt to defend the actions of Israel in view of the staggering amount of evidence showing them to have been knowingly deceitful, murderous, self centred, callous and uncaring as to international laws and conventions, totally without any regard for anyone but themselves.

I can never help but wonder, "is it blind nationalism, or the result of past censorship which now has them refusing to believe the plainly obvious truth"? To my way of thinking they fall into exactly the same category as those whom they so rightly despise, Holocaust deniers and outright "Jew baiters", people who for reasons known only to themselves appear to live in an alternate reality.

But I think most of Jews are pro-Israel not anti-Israel or neutral. Maybe I am wrong. But is there any site or somethings to show us what percent of 13-14 millions Jews are pro-Israel? I see them very mysterious about this matter. It couldn't be difficult when most of them live in advanced countries and there is not any problem if they tell their opinions ( or maybe there is! I don't know)

I think it could be safely said that the majority of Jews in Israel are pro-Israel, after all that is the reason most of them went there.

However, there have always been opponents to many of Israel's policies and I think it would also be safe to say that this group of people has grown greatly with the advent of uncensored news regarding the actions of Israel against the Palestinian people. I know for a fact that many Jews were horrified when confronted with the truth, finding out that they had been lied to for so long also helped to bolster the numbers of those in opposition to Israel's policies.

I think you will find that there are far more pro-Palestinian, Jewish groups than you could ever find pro-Israeli organisations among the Palestinian people. Some of the better known ones being organisations like B'Tselem amd Jews for Justice in Palestine. When I say this, I totally disregard those poor Palestinians who are dragged in front of the TV cameras by Israel to state that they support Israel views, as it is painfully obvious that these comments are only being made under extreme duress.

On top of all this the Israelis have opposition from many of their own orthodox religious groups who point out that their own Scriptures clearly state that the aims of Zionism and the aims of Judaism are almost mutually exclusive.

 

[Cartman]

Honestly, this just shows your pretty low level of knowledge. Do you know why each one of these countries said that at least? Do you understand what their situation was back then? If you did, you probably wouldn't say that.

Speaking of the dog who barks,

"The Sinai is now Israel and it is to be settled by Israelis." - Golda Meir.[FONT=&quot] <----it's not Israel neither is it settled by Israelis.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]"The 1967 war was the last of wars...after which there is nothing left for the Arabs but to plead for mercy."- Moshe Dayan <----It wasn't the last of all wars and there was something the Arabs could do besides pleading for mercy.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]That's of course besides the famous quote for Moshe Dayan that we needed American and Soviet technologies combined so we can take down the sand barrier although it ended up falling using water.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

you are right, what golda said and moshe said was wrong. but their ego talked for them. your country's efforts in erasing us from the map have failed so miserably and now you forget that if we didnt trade sinai for peace, it was still ours by now. the only reason sinai is an egyption territory is because the peace agreement.

 

[MontyB]

you are right, what golda said and moshe said was wrong. but their ego talked for them. your country's efforts in erasing us from the map have failed so miserably and now you forget that if we didnt trade sinai for peace, it was still ours by now. the only reason sinai is an egyption territory is because the peace agreement.

Just for interests sake people holding all the cards rarely fold because they have won too much.

I am prepared to bet that if Israel thought it could have kept the Sinai it would have.