If Hitler died early? Germany vs Allies - Page 3

January 13th, 2005  
The Grill Instructor
Originally Posted by beardo
I think that if hitler die AFTER the war had started but BEFORE D-Day then the germans would have won. Why? because it was hitlers stubborn-ness and lack of military talent that held the germans up so much in russia....if he would have left it to his generals...the best in the world experience wise..they would have beaten russia..and had their entire army on the western front...that and unlimeted supplies coming from russia and germany
Correct. The fact of Hitler´s stubborness was a more dangerous enemy than any other nation in those days. If the genarals would have given the the orders they wanted to give, Germany probably would have won the war.

January 13th, 2005  
One of the most important things to remember about Hitler was the fact he was basicly the military, he was the god of Germany at that time. what he said went. If he was killed then the people may have lost the will to fight.
January 16th, 2005  
Originally Posted by Cabal
If Hitler was dead sooner, Germany would surely surrender sooner. However many of his close advisors can continue his work through Heinreich Himmler, Geobbels, Goering (However he was addicted to some sort of intoxicating drug). But, the question remains too ambigious and altering history can create an infinite amount of possibilities.
You're right, Goering was a morphium addict. A drug abuser like many other nazi officials. Hitler himself was given daily injections of Pervithin (Amphetamine), cocaine (against the coryza) and sleeping aids for years by his personal personal physician Dr. Morell. I think this makes his general behavior a lot more comprehensible. (Long-term amphetamine abuse results in agressive behavior, paranoia, mood swings, sometimes hallucinations, etc.)

Originally Posted by Darcia
One of the most important things to remember about Hitler was the fact he was basicly the military, he was the god of Germany at that time. what he said went. If he was killed then the people may have lost the will to fight.
From my knowledge, there always remained a distance between Hitler and the military. Thats why Hitler built up the SS and Waffen-SS - as a mean to protect himself from a possible coup by the military. Thats a common thing in dictatorships btw, why do you think Saddam needed something like the Fedayeen Saddam?

Also, there are several theories concerning how much Hitler really was in charge, e.g. "structuralist"-thesis vs. "intentionalist"-thesis. (Structuralists tend to say that the development of the third Reich was very much due to the structure of the Reich, with its competing institutions with overlapping competencies, all trying to excel by doing what they assumed to be the Führer's will. - But "what he said went" is true in any case. Thats why historians speak of a "Führerstaat".

Apart, I think you overestimate the enthusiasm of the common man for Hitler, especially during the last years of the war. There were plenty of other reasons to fight, e.g. fear of the Soviets, fear of being hanged for desertion by the SS, typical german obedience to authorities ("Do what they tell you.."-mentality ), etc.. But of course there were also plenty of fanatics in all parts of society, no doubt.

regards, loki
January 18th, 2005  
Originally Posted by battery

In this situation that Hitler was murdered early, who would take over as Reichspräsident? Before Hitler commited suicide he chose Karl Donitz as Reichspräsident because of his huge distrust of Hermann Göring and Heinrich Himmler, it kind of depends on who succeeded Hitler in office to determine whether or not they would have even attempted to make a peace agreement.
It wouldn't be any of Hiltlers cronies taking over, since any of the polters considered them enemies too. Whoever they had planned to take over, I think it was an ex-general (I forgot who), I think any of them would hesitated to take any peace agreement if it meant the Russians occupying Germany. This was probably the reason to go on fighting, even if Hilter was assasinated, since the Allies were determined on unconditional surrender not a peace or a stalemate.
January 30th, 2005  

Topic: what if hitler would have died befor d-day

if hitler would have died we would all be speaking german.
just as mentioned it was hitlers stubern self that resulted in germanys defeat. if more regaurd was given to his senior advisors and hadn't been fighting on several fronts on more than one continent the allied powers would have undoutedly fallen.
the german mindset dedication and technalogical sophistication were defanitly the criterea for a world power that would in fact have lasted a thousand years
November 13th, 2005  
This post it quite late due to the fact that i just joined this forum, but i think it could very easily clarify what would happen if Hitler had died.

During the war there were two secret services in Germany: S.S. and Abwerh (not sure how to spell it). Abwerh was actually the cover that the german underground used. This underground was made up of many German intellectuals and several Military Elite most notably Erwin Rommel.

Over the years there were many ideas of assassinations attemps on hitler and 11 were carried out. The first few were failures due to the fact that German made bombs planted on Hitlers plane made a ticking sound before they blew up and were easily found and disabled.

In 1943 German conspirators met with english secret services in switzerland and they were given quite a few English made bombs with no annoying ticking sounds.

Several attemps to use these bombs failed because Hitler by this time was very scared of being assassinated he would organise meetings for 20 minutes then arrive and only stay for 10 minutes or he would change the location of the meeting at the last second.

The conspirators had organised a way to take over the government if Hitler was assassinated. Their leader was also coincidentally the General of the Home Army and as soon as he was given the signal that Hitler was dead he would move on Berlin and other important cities. Also there was a man ready in switzerland to sign a peace treaty with the English as soon as he was given the signal by the new Dictator after Hitler was killed who was supposed to be Rommel. The most critical aspect to the plan was that not only Hitler was supposed to be killed but with him Goering and Himmler who after Hitler were the two most influential men in the country.

On the day of the attempted assassination, Stuffenburg i believe he was called was called to a General Staff meeting to discuss how many more soldiers could be sent from the Home Army to the front line in the East.
When he arrived he had 2 wine bottles as a present for Hitler, they both contained a bomb. To his astonishment Himmler was not present at the meeting and he immediately defused the bomb.

He later decided on his next attempt he would kill Hitler at all cost even if Himmler and Goering weren't there. His next chance came soon, he was summoned to Wolfshanze ( again not sure about the spelling) Head Quarters in east prussia. There he planted a brief case filled with explosives under a desk where Hitler would be sitting.

Hitler that day was amazingly lucky because a young officer was annoyed because a briefcase was rubbing against his leg so he moved it to his other side. This effectively killed him but saved Hitler from any critical damage.

All of these facts are from the diaries of Field Marshal Jodl and Kleist and from testimonies at the Nuremburg Trials.
March 13th, 2006  
Ollie Garchy
Why does everyone think that Germany was completely responsible for prolonging the war? Think of these points:

(1) Roosevelt proclaimed the policy of unconditional surrender at Casablanca. That means that the Germans had to accept total defeat, the eradication of all government, the end of sovereignty and a total occupation. Roosevelt's policy removed the chances for negotiation.

(2) Stalin wanted to dominate eastern/central Europe. His postwar conceptions centered on the complete neutralization of German power. Stalin destroyed East Prussia and turned central Germany (East Germany as it became known) into a slave state. The Germans could see this coming by 1944.

A German surrender in 1943 or 1944 was unthinkable in part because of Allied policy. Did the Allies treat Germany as a real country with normal and legitimate policies? Of course not. This problem goes back to the WWI era and is only partly related to nazism and Hitler.

Ollie Garchy
March 13th, 2006  
Originally Posted by Ollie Garchy
Did the Allies treat Germany as a real country with normal and legitimate policies? Of course not.

Ollie Garchy
As well they didn't!
There was nothing normal or legitimate about the policies of Nazi Germany in WW2
March 14th, 2006  
I would say, all hope for German victory has evaporated by winter 41/42 - they got stuck in Russia and the US have entered the war(not on the German side!).
To fight against the Royal Navy, Red Army and American industrial might(later augmented by very powerful Army, air Corp and the Navy) - it was too much for Germany even at her best.
It didn't matter(at this point) who was the Fuhrer....
March 14th, 2006  
Originally Posted by redcoat
As well they didn't!
There was nothing normal or legitimate about the policies of Nazi Germany in WW2
The thing is though, were the darkest aspects of Nazi Germany widely known in 1943 or 1944?

I think Germany was dealt with as it was by the Allies out of sheer fright and panic. After all, for a 'long' time it looked like Germany couldn't lose.