If the China communist army attack Taiwan, would the west countries protect Taiwan? - Page 2




 
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February 27th, 2013  
Capt Frogman
 
 
Why do you have a problem with the US supporting Taiwan?
February 27th, 2013  
Capt Frogman
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brinktk
The CCP knows this and isn't going to do anthing until they can get at least regional overmatch of UN/NATO forces in air/land/sea capability for any planned invasion. This is still many many years away from being a reality.
This pretty much sums everything up.
February 27th, 2013  
hawky94
 
 
Oh... he's back.
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February 27th, 2013  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by udaka
Don't you know the power will change with times pass out, the Soviet union wasn't a big power when he founded in 1917, but after Stalin and other soviet union leader develope industry and economic, Soviet become a superpower at 1960s,-1980s. you claim ccp had no enough navy and air force invade Taiwan before 30 years ago, no represent China had no ability in the furture. The power will change with times ,Just like some global big power decline very fast in the history,like British emprie and soviet union.

You claim war will lead to China famine,made me curiosity. Don't you know China provide foods for himself since 1949, Yes, China import many crops in recent years, but just for feed animals,Because we want eat more meat.
And, with China one-child policy execution for 30 years. half of Chinese families only had one child ,maybe some families have two chlid, the total population of China will decline after 2015, at that time we won't worry about the foods . But the west company can't exploit so-call "cheap- labours " in China, Because our salary will raise serval times than now.

At here we don't discuss the question about military power, just ask will you shed your blood for some people had no relationship with you.
I think you have missed the point.
No nation including China can afford to piss off its customers, if you go to war against your major customer the first thing they do is stop buying your products which has far reaching affects.

Lets assume you invade Taiwan and the US doesn't immediately send troops but instead it says "we are going to stop all trade with China and expect our allies to do the same" how are you going to keep people employed, feed, paid, equip a massive military and keep the newly unemployed at home from turning feral when about 60% of your GDP has dried up over night?

Economics rules the world these days not armies.
February 27th, 2013  
brinktk
 
 
The Chinese HAVE NOT been able to feed themselves since 1949! He obviously doesn't know about the massively ineffective agricultural policies that the CCP had throughout the 1950s and into the 60s where tens of millions of Chinese died. That was of their own doing.

Everyone is aware that powers rise and fall, the CCP included. I don't think the problem with Taiwan is going to persist because I don't think the current Communist government in China is going to exist within the next 20-30 years. The internet is there to stay, hackers are getting the word out about government censorship and corruption. Massive amounts of Chinese students are attending Universities in the West. Hundreds of millions of Chinese citizens still live in abject poverty and are disenfranchised from the very government that keeps them in that position. Non ethnic Han chinese are basically treated as unequals which accounts for another tens of millions into the hundred million range...

The point is, what you're proposing is almost proposterous because China has massive problems it needs to tackle within the mainland before it can even think about dealing with Taiwan.

As for me shedding my blood for Taiwanese...well, I shed my blood for Iraqi's...why not an actual ally that we do tons of trade with and have had amicable relations with for over 60 years? I won't have to though. The second China makes a move, their entire economy is shut down virtually over night. It will remain that way indefinitely until they comply with either UN or NATO mandates. How long do you think the CCP will survive from their OWN population once the entire economy is shut down? How long will it take for them to recover since they're STILL industrializing compared to the west who has gone through modern industrialization already? Will it hurt the West too? Absolutely, but we'll get through it and we will find other people to make the cheap crappy goods that China makes. BUT, it would KILL China and any chance they have at emerging as a superpower on par with their status of the past.
February 27th, 2013  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brinktk
Will it hurt the West too? Absolutely, but we'll get through it and we will find other people to make the cheap crappy goods that China makes. BUT, it would KILL China and any chance they have at emerging as a superpower on par with their status of the past.
Exactly there is always India, Indonesia and Brazil to fill the cheap crap market requirements, or who knows we may even start making some of our own cheap crap again.
February 28th, 2013  
RusCan2013
 
If such a war took place, it would be truly a world war.

On the Taiwan side, the US and probably the rest of NATO would jump in.

On the Chinese side, via SCO treaties, Russia, among others, could be obligated to fight on their side. China and Russia have all sorts of military alliances, they do military exercises together very often


Then, there is a little matter of North Korea

who knows, if the **** hits the fan in Taiwan, they may decide it's a good time to also hit Seoul, open a second front, so to speak, for their Chinese ally.

And who knows what Iran might do too. No, such a war would be a global mess, for sure.
February 28th, 2013  
udaka
 
ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha , you don't need try to intimidate me ,”if China invade Taiwan ,the economic of China will break down, many people will trap in poverty....." If one people don't afraid to dead, do you think he would care bullsh1t economy and GDP. In fact ,every people on Earth want to live longer, if you don't want live longer,why don't you suicide?



Many people in the USA like you prophecy China communist party will collapse ,we had see too many. When China communist party took power in 1949, many people in USA prophecy China communist party will break down in 20 years. But everybody know what happen!The most new version that prophecy China will collapse , is USA Scholar call Zhang jiang deng claim China will collapse in ten years.He said these in 2001,Now day he become a laugh stock.


Maybe I asked "will you .......that had no relationship with you",the question too stupid. The European only trust "there no forever friend, but forever interest." The decision factor about west countires involve the war is their " nation benifit". So the west countires often betray and sold their ally usually.
Like Iraq,Iran, Libiya, China,Afghanistan used to be the ally of west countries in past 100 years. Now they become the enemy of USA.





Quote:
Originally Posted by brinktk
The Chinese HAVE NOT been able to feed themselves since 1949! He obviously doesn't know about the massively ineffective agricultural policies that the CCP had throughout the 1950s and into the 60s where tens of millions of Chinese died. That was of their own doing.

Everyone is aware that powers rise and fall, the CCP included. I don't think the problem with Taiwan is going to persist because I don't think the current Communist government in China is going to exist within the next 20-30 years. The internet is there to stay, hackers are getting the word out about government censorship and corruption. Massive amounts of Chinese students are attending Universities in the West. Hundreds of millions of Chinese citizens still live in abject poverty and are disenfranchised from the very government that keeps them in that position. Non ethnic Han chinese are basically treated as unequals which accounts for another tens of millions into the hundred million range...

The point is, what you're proposing is almost proposterous because China has massive problems it needs to tackle within the mainland before it can even think about dealing with Taiwan.

As for me shedding my blood for Taiwanese...well, I shed my blood for Iraqi's...why not an actual ally that we do tons of trade with and have had amicable relations with for over 60 years? I won't have to though. The second China makes a move, their entire economy is shut down virtually over night. It will remain that way indefinitely until they comply with either UN or NATO mandates. How long do you think the CCP will survive from their OWN population once the entire economy is shut down? How long will it take for them to recover since they're STILL industrializing compared to the west who has gone through modern industrialization already? Will it hurt the West too? Absolutely, but we'll get through it and we will find other people to make the cheap crappy goods that China makes. BUT, it would KILL China and any chance they have at emerging as a superpower on par with their status of the past.
February 28th, 2013  
brinktk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by udaka
ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha , you don't need try to intimidate me ,”if China invade Taiwan ,the economic of China will break down, many people will trap in poverty....." If one people don't afraid to dead, do you think he would care bullsh1t economy and GDP. In fact ,every people on Earth want to live longer, if you don't want live longer,why don't you suicide?



Many people in the USA like you prophecy China communist party will collapse ,we had see too many. When China communist party took power in 1949, many people in USA prophecy China communist party will break down in 20 years. But everybody know what happen!The most new version that prophecy China will collapse , is USA Scholar call Zhang jiang deng claim China will collapse in ten years.He said these in 2001,Now day he become a laugh stock.


Maybe I asked "will you .......that had no relationship with you",the question too stupid. The European only trust "there no forever friend, but forever interest." The decision factor about west countires involve the war is their " nation benifit". So the west countires often betray and sold their ally usually.
Like Iraq,Iran, Libiya, China,Afghanistan used to be the ally of west countries in past 100 years. Now they become the enemy of USA.

It's obvious you don't have any idea what you're talking about. You offer conjecture, and when someone comes in here and offers a counterpoint you attack them and add more conjecture.

You also have a lack of basic understanding of cost/benefit analysis and how a countries economy plays problably the biggest factor in that country being able to prosecute a major war.

You're obviously a CCP apologist that has only studied their version of their history. Perhaps if you read other things besides what makes the CCP look good you'd realize that China is a long way from being able to do anything with Taiwan. Confidence is good in warfare. Overconfidence will get you killed. You're showing classic examples of overconfidence. We're trying to be realistic about the very question you've asked and still you act as if we're trying to "intimidate" you. Insecure much? Inferiority complex much? Having unrealistic expectations about ones enemy is a good way to be defeated. Even worse is having unrealistic expectations about your own sides abilities.

Rattling their sword about Taiwan is a face saving tactic. The Chinese government knows that to attack Taiwan would essentially seal their own fate and cause the collapse of the regime. They also know that if they don't act as if they're pissed off about not having Taiwan that they'll be percieved as "weak" by their allies. I seriously doubt Russia would come to Chinas aid in this instance since their relationship was rocky even when both countries were communist. (having fought small skirmishes on their shared border on several occasions). Chinas military is not as big as it is to be able to project power...it's that big to keep the Chinese people in line which can be shown by their actions during the cultural revolution all the way up to the Tiannamen square massacre. The CCP is not about equality. They don't even follow the basic tenets of communism. It's about power. They folded on their ideology when Mao died. Look at history mr udaka. You can do that in China correct? Wherever the markets go, the government will follow to accomodate that market. Capitalism and communism don't mix. One of them will go in the grand scheme of things...and I'm sure that the people are gonna pick the ability to make a living over the corrupt, substandard, elites of the CCP. History may not repeat itself...but it sure does paraphrase well.
February 28th, 2013  
udaka
 
congratulation! If you find some countries can made cheaps shoes,toys`clothes`Cement, paper towels, table than China, like Philippines, Indonesia, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brazil, Africa countries, please make the west companies who made these move out from China as soon as possible.


We don't welcome the west companies who make high-pollution,low-value products stay at China, pollute our water and atmosphere.And the big profit were taken by west companies.
From now on ,China just produce high value-added and had technical content products. Like cars, computer,drives,piano,TV`washing-room`mobile phones,machine tool,household appliances,big ship,big,plane,space-ships.......!


Quote:
Originally Posted by brinktk
we will find other people to make the cheap crappy goods that China makes. BUT, it would KILL China and any chance they have at emerging as a superpower on par with their status of the past.
 


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