Identifying this old rifle ?

MightyMacbeth

MightyMacbeth

I am Honor
Well I recently bought this gun from an antique store. Unfortunately, he didn't know much about it :bored:

Anyway, I was trying to identify it, you know, its model, maker, etc..

Its a percussion cap rifle/musket. The year "1857" is written on it.

There are a few inscriptions (see photos 6a, 7a, and 8a), but they didn't help me much.

I uploaded 8 pictures to my photo gallery:

http://www.military-quotes.com/media/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/3724

Thanks in advance gentlemen :smil:
 
I'm pretty sure its an British Army Enfield (short) rifle-musket. Designation is the P-1856, but officially known Pattern 1856 Army Short Rifle.

I did some reading, your rifle says TOWER just under 1857, which means it wasn't made by the Royal Small Arms Factory in Enfield but by a civilian contractor.

I found this, this guy has a musket that is very similar to yours.

http://www.svartkrutt.net/engp56.php

There is quiet abit of rust on the metal, I'd get it cleaned perhaps even professionally to avoid damaging it. Its 150 years old so be careful.

If you don't mind me asking, Where did you buy it? and for how much?
 
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Okay I sent you some info mmarsh.


And if anyone else can help us here, it would be great.

The gun is about 4 Kilograms, 8-9lbs. And is approximately 122cm long, 4 feet
 
Yeah, mmarsh hit the nail on the head. It's a 1856 Enfield Rifle-Musket. It's a .58 Caliber Rifled Musket. Uses Percussion Caps as a way to ignite the powder. Seems to be in okay shape. Take it to a gun smith and have him look it over and get it cleaned up. You have some major pitting on the hammer and nipple. It's not going to be a pretty gun but it might still fire once it's all cleaned up. Most of the rust appears to be surface rust.

Side note about your rifle. It might be Confederate. During the War of Northern Aggression. England supported the south and sold them arms. The 1856 Enfield Rifle-Musket was one of the most common issue weapons for the Confederacy.
 
5.56X45mm said:
Yeah, mmarsh hit the nail on the head. It's a 1856 Enfield Rifle-Musket. It's a .58 Caliber Rifled Musket. Uses Percussion Caps as a way to ignite the powder. Seems to be in okay shape. Take it to a gun smith and have him look it over and get it cleaned up. You have some major pitting on the hammer and nipple. It's not going to be a pretty gun but it might still fire once it's all cleaned up. Most of the rust appears to be surface rust.

Side note about your rifle. It might be Confederate. During the War of Northern Aggression. England supported the south and sold them arms. The 1856 Enfield Rifle-Musket was one of the most common issue weapons for the Confederacy.
Click to expand...


oh thanks. Yeah once I have the needed recourses I'll try to shoot or something. Its a bit rusty and not really so flashy, but hey, better than nothing :smil:
Im not sure if its a confederate or used in that war though
 
Macbeth

I pretty sure it is TOWER. Remember spelling has changed since the 19th century and because sometimes manufactures would reverse letter/change them to symbols for copyright purposes.

For the rust I would take it to a professional as 5.56 suggested. Its an antique and you should let a professional gunsmith treat it. Could be tricky in Kuwait, but there most be someone who can do it. Perhaps even a museum.

I don't think its a Confederate piece for 3 reasons.

First, you bought it it Kuwait. The Confederates never made it that far but the British Army certainly had a strong presence there. Geographically, its just much more likely a British Army rifle.

Second there is the crown behind the hammerlock. Enfields that were meant for exported generally didn't have that mark. As the British Crown wasn't supposed to be officially supporting the Rebels.

Lastly your Enfield is the 'short' not the 'long'. The 'Long' barrel was about 15in longer than the 'short' and was a infantryman weapon. The 'short' varient was meant as an NCO rifle, its nickname was the "sergeants rifle".

Unlike the British Army, the NCOs on both sides of the US Civil War carried standard infantry weapons, not specialized. Of course the Confederacy would use whatever they could get. So while not impossible its a confederate piece, its unlikely.
 
Interesting info mmarsh.
Its hard to find something like that here, and so once I saw it, took the chance to buy it. Bad shape or good shape. I'll see about its cleaning. How about a gun store?

Anyway, I discovered some markings and some inscribing on the barrel. Unfortunately I couldn't figure out what letters, numbers, and shapes they were. I'll try to take a picture
 
MightyMacbeth said:
Interesting info mmarsh.
Its hard to find something like that here, and so once I saw it, took the chance to buy it. Bad shape or good shape. I'll see about its cleaning. How about a gun store?

Anyway, I discovered some markings and some inscribing on the barrel. Unfortunately I couldn't figure out what letters, numbers, and shapes they were. I'll try to take a picture
Click to expand...

If you were in the States a gun store would be my first stop. Shop around if one guy wont do it perhaps another will. You could probably find articles on Google if you *had* to do it yourself. I'm sure 5.56 could give you a pointer or two as he is a gunsmith.
 
Well Done!

Sorry I can not help to identify the weapon. But please accept my congratulations on owning such a lovely piece of history, enjoy!

:cheers:
AlphaHound
 
mmarsh said:
If you were in the States a gun store would be my first stop. Shop around if one guy wont do it perhaps another will. You could probably find articles on Google if you *had* to do it yourself. I'm sure 5.56 could give you a pointer or two as he is a gunsmith.
Click to expand...

okay, thanks mmarsh. We'll wait for our gun expert, 5.56 :smil:



AlphaHound said:
Sorry I can not help to identify the weapon. But please accept my congratulations on owning such a lovely piece of history, enjoy!

:cheers:
AlphaHound
Click to expand...

Oh thank you AlphaHound, and thank you quite alot :)
 
I always like Enfield Rifles, the fact that you have one so old is, well, rare.

I have seen recreations, but, never a original. Even, if it does not ever fire again, it is still in my opinion a elegant weapon. The thing that makes weapons like this so special, is that the British in 1856, still had a empire. Which means, your short rifle, may have seen foreign lands, in a different time. Even though it is hard to track them, I personally believe that antique weapons can always tell stories.

Congratulations, for you posses a piece of history, it is a fine weapon.:salute:
 
Sukio said:
I always like Enfield Rifles, the fact that you have one so old is, well, rare.

I have seen recreations, but, never a original. Even, if it does not ever fire again, it is still in my opinion a elegant weapon. The thing that makes weapons like this so special, is that the British in 1856, still had a empire. Which means, your short rifle, may have seen foreign lands, in a different time. Even though it is hard to track them, I personally believe that antique weapons can always tell stories.

Congratulations, for you posses a piece of history, it is a fine weapon.:salute:
Click to expand...

thank you there my friend. Your words made my day :cheers:
 
You best bet is to talk to some Civil War Reenactors. They play with guns of that era way more then I do.

You can clean it up and see it it will fire. As for spare parts. I believe that Numrich might have parts for it but I'm not sure.

If you want to see if it will fire safely. Clean it up, then simply load a blank charge. instead of shooting a projectile. Just load a powder charge and a paper or cloth wad to hold in the powder. It's what civil war and rev war reenactors do for blanks. Also, place the musket in a vice and attach string to the trigger. You want to say away from the musket for safety reasons.

Check the musket for any cracks in the barrel and receiver. Also see if there is any major pitting.
 
If you want to keep this as a collectors piece then take it to a smith who deals with antique firearms. A bluing job or stock polish or damage to any remaining finish will ruin it's value.
 
Well, neither actually. Its a percussion cap rifle. Forerunner of the modern primer. Light years ahead of the flintlock and matchlock designs.
 
Percussion caps, ah.. the Smokey ones! I remember that now. I am no small arms historian, but you can tell the differences if you know them.
 
don't shoot it, it is a locally made copy called a kyber pass gun. a local made blacksmith made it out of god knows what. The give away is the lockplate, would tower armory misspell their name. email me for proof.
 
mmarsh said:
Macbeth

I pretty sure it is TOWER. Remember spelling has changed since the 19th century and because sometimes manufactures would reverse letter/change them to symbols for copyright purposes.


I don't think its a Confederate piece for 3 reasons.

First, you bought it it Kuwait. The Confederates never made it that far but the British Army certainly had a strong presence there. Geographically, its just much more likely a British Army rifle.

Second there is the crown behind the hammerlock. Enfields that were meant for exported generally didn't have that mark. As the British Crown wasn't supposed to be officially supporting the Rebels.

Lastly your Enfield is the 'short' not the 'long'. The 'Long' barrel was about 15in longer than the 'short' and was a infantryman weapon. The 'short' varient was meant as an NCO rifle, its nickname was the "sergeants rifle".

Unlike the British Army, the NCOs on both sides of the US Civil War carried standard infantry weapons, not specialized. Of course the Confederacy would use whatever they could get. So while not impossible its a confederate piece, its unlikely.
Click to expand...
North & South bought mainly P-53s, but took the short rifle if available. The Contractor guns usually have the crown but no VR under it. They would have a lock date 1861-65. 1857 with no VR would have been made for some use other than the Royal Army. The Kyber Pass knock off is a probability. Tower was correctly spelled on ones I've seen.l
 
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