Is Huntington right?

[Ted]

During me uni-years I had to read Huntington's "The Clash of Civilizations". At that time I thought that it was somewhat over-emphasizing the influence of culture and under-estimating the influence of the nation-state.

It is my hypothesis that the fundamental source of conflict in this new world will not be primarily ideological or primarily economic. The great divisions among humankind and the dominating source of conflict will be cultural.

My question is: is this really what will happen and can it be avoided? Personally I thought people had enough brains to filter the bs out many "news" articles. But I was wrong..... again.

If you wish to read the synopsis of his book, here is the link:
http://www.alamut.com/subj/economics/misc/clash.html

 

[phoenix80]

Absolutely but he didn't mention one point and that is the readiness of the world to go into such war (I mean war of civilizations) however the other side (uncivilized one) has shown times and times again that they want a war.

 

[gladius]

My question is: is this really what will happen and can it be avoided?

I don't think this clash can be avoided, we are dealing with a culture that won't compromise, unless of course we want to compromise our own freedoms and ideals?

...But there is one small (maybe miniscule) chance that this clash can be avoided.

Maybe if democracy and openess can be spread throughout the Middle East then it could change the face of Islam itself, ...maybe. This as I see it is our only chance. Will it happen? From what I see, I doubt if it will happen enough to make a lasting change. But I think it will happen to a small extent that it will buy us time.

The clash is inevitable, what we do now will determin whether we a Westerners survive it or not.

 

[localgrizzly]

I
...But there is one small (maybe miniscule) chance that this clash can be avoided.
The clash is inevitable, what we do now will determin whether we a Westerners survive it or not.

I believe it is inevitable. A person indoctrinated from birth in Mohammadanism cannot grasp the most basic and fundamental concepts of individual freedom, freedom or religion, or of expression.

Their basic minsdset is simply: "embrace my religion or die."

 

[bulldogg]

Not in Indonesia, the world's most populous muslim nation. What I have just experienced in the last three weeks has been eye opening and very instructive. There is no inevitable clash- only an orchestrated dance of death being played on both sides by people who benefit from this tripe.

 

[Ted]

But with the current possibilities to inform each other there should be possibilities right?
But is it purely the journalists who show, write, photograph the "evil that men do"? In earlier days nobody outside of Danmark would have seen these cartoons, now it is within reach with a simple tap on a computer... How to deal with this without infringing on the basic rights of "freedom of speech" and the usefulness of informing one another. Or are we truely as sick as some suggest that we only spread the bad news?

 

[Italian Guy]

To your last question: Yes.

 

[Marinerhodes]

My question is: is this really what will happen and can it be avoided?

Without going into a 10 page monolgue:

Yes, this has happened in the past and will happen again.

No, it can not be avoided unless the culture(s) that are more hostile to difference of opinions and more personal freedoms make some drastic changes.

 

[gladius]

Not in Indonesia, the world's most populous muslim nation. What I have just experienced in the last three weeks has been eye opening and very instructive. There is no inevitable clash- only an orchestrated dance of death being played on both sides by people who benefit from this tripe.

Are you sure about this?

There is no inevitable clash for the moment because they just had one a few years ago. Dude, 200,000 people died during those clashes with Islamic jihadist attacking Christians living in Indonesia, and your saying no? Maybe they treated you special because you are a foriegner.

Not to mention 3 school girls going to a Christian school were beheaded there just last October.

 

[Missileer]

Are you sure about this?

There is no inevitable clash for the moment because they just had one a few years ago. Dude, 200,000 people died during those clashes with Islamic jihadist attacking Christians living in Indonesia, and your saying no? Maybe they treated you special because you are a foriegner.

Not to mention 3 school girls going to a Christian school were beheaded there just last October.

My Niece and her Husband, who is Indonesian and Christian, left with their two kids and all they could ship during that time. They ran for their lives.

 

[bulldogg]

Its a deeper issue than Christian VS Muslim, it has to do with Sulawesi and Javanese culture and forced migration under Suharto's regime. Religion is the scapegoat but most Indonesians will tell you that half the atrocities being reported in the news from Kalimantan, Sulawesi and Irian Jaya on both sides are in fact being perptrated by TNI covert forces.

As for special treatment, no, my wife and her family are ethnic Chinese so I was in the company of the number one most hated ethnic group in all of Indonesia. May of 1998 anyone?

 

[Ted]

I reckon that the massacres you mention are the by product of the "transmigrasi"... as you pointed out. The Javanese were given the best farming lands on the outer islands as to eliviate the pressure on Java itself. These lands belonged to the local tribes for ages and suddenly outsiders come and take it (sound familiar?). Of course they are bound to act in a violent way.
The fact that these Javanese farmers were muslim had almost nothing to do with this.

May 1998..... hadn't they killed some Chinese again? They are at that on a regular basis aren't they?

 

[Chief Bones]

You have forgotten one major maxim

My question is: is this really what will happen and can it be avoided? Personally I thought people had enough brains to filter the bs out many "news" articles. But I was wrong..... again.

"If we don't learn from our mistakes we are destined to repeat them".

When we use hindsight, we can see where many mistakes were made that could have averted the situation taking place in the middle east. Where the major rub comes in, is that we would have to completely rewrite history to accomplish this simple solution.

Bitter hatreds that arose from centuries of warfare, are a major barrier to peace in the region that will continue to play a not so subtle part in the politics of the various governments mixed up in this fracas. Because of the number of diverse groups that are caught up in this warfare, the solution is more complicated than just looking at the mistakes of the past. Recognizing mistakes that were made does NOT smooth the rough road of hatred that exists for most extremists.

THE REAL QUESTION IS "HOW DO WE GET PAST THE HATE AND BUILD FOR THE PEACE?"

 

[bulldogg]

In my humble opinion, education plays a major role in making inroads to peace Chief. You have to stop picking the scab of old wounds for them to heal and all parties to a conflict have to be tired of fighting. Look at the Balkans and Northern Ireland for examples of how long it takes when at least one side hasn't tired of the destruction and loss of life.

You must start with the children and teach them understanding and compassion and it can't be one sided. Peace, true lasting peace takes a concerted effort on both sides of the coin. Distractions along the way in the form of die hard extremists et al have to be ignored. Some thick skin must be employed to keep your eyes on the goal.

Lastly I believe the media needs to be held accountable and made to be responsible in what it choses to report and how it is reported. Rather than fanning the flames they must work as a force for peace exercising sound judgement and self-censorship in many cases. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

 

[Chief Bones]

In my humble opinion, education plays a major role in making inroads to peace Chief.

I am talking about the immediate peace efforts and I don't disagree with your comment for a time far distant in the future. Where the rubber meets the road though, is that many of the very people that are affecting the peace process right now, have such bitter hatreds that the peace process has a very small chance of succeeding. Along with the bitter hatred, it doesn't help when the media is insensitive enough to publish articles , pictures and cartoons which denigrate the Islamic faith.

Rather than fanning the flames they must work as a force for peace exercising sound judgement and self-censorship in many cases. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

WHEN THEY DON'T, THAT'S JUST PLAIN DUMB AND IN BAD TASTE.