Hunters and the Army




 
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November 2nd, 2004  
A Can of Man
 
 

Topic: Hunters and the Army


Okay here's a new thread because the other was getting off topic.

Here's my opinion.
Hunters or a hunting background will be really good because first, you're already acclimated to the outdoors. This can be quite a big shock to others. You already know some nice little tricks and things that can keep you going longer. You know how to maintain your kit as well.
You develop an eye for the enviorns. If something isn't where it's supposed to be, chances are you'll be the first to spot it. For most people trees all look alike. To a skilled hunter, he could call a fake camouflage tree or one that just wasn't there the other day.
Also being experienced in shooting, it makes marksmanship a snap.
Though hunting in itself won't turn you into a good infantryman, the skills you learn there can be applied and it's a good combination.
November 2nd, 2004  
Duty Honor Country
 
 
you could probably add boyscouts into your agrument. There are a lot of skills that I got from the boyscouts that I use in the military.

But yes, being a hunter can aid a soldier.
November 2nd, 2004  
RnderSafe
 
 
Many skills learned from hunting can be beneficial, while many, like shooting for instance, can often times hurt - especially when it comes to long range target interdiction. Bad habits die hard.
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November 2nd, 2004  
godofthunder9010
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RnderSafe
Many skills learned from hunting can be beneficial, while many, like shooting for instance, can often times hurt - especially when it comes to long range target interdiction. Bad habits die hard.
Can you give us a hypothetical example. I'm not entirely sure I'm understanding.
November 2nd, 2004  
Redneck
 
 
Although I only have any real experience with one side of this, I do believe that hunting (and the BSA) can be very beneficial to a serviceman, as far as a general idea of fieldcraft (basic movement, although I think I've only lowcrawled while hunting once , situational awareness, and marksmanship) is concerned, but the trap that I have seen a few others, including a couple fellows I grew up with, fall into is thinking they are Daniel Boone. This isn't the Wild West or the Kentucky Frontier anymore where hunters actually had to practice good fieldcraft to survive and had done so all their lives, and a lot of modern hunters are more dangerous to their dogs and our cattle than to the game they're after (I know this from personal experience, getting peppered by a 20 GA on a pheasant hunt and some flatlander drilling one of our heifers because he thought it was a deer, among other things). Hunters, even ones who have been hunting their entire lives, still make stupid mistakes. My Dad almost drowned/froze to death on a duck hunt when their punt capsized because they stayed out in a storm, and one of our neighbors fell off a cliff and froze to death on a hunt in Montana.
So, yes, hunting CAN give the hunter certain skills that will benefit him as a Soldier, but most likely it will not make him a romanticized Audie Murphy type frontiersman.


edit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010
Quote:
Originally Posted by RnderSafe
Many skills learned from hunting can be beneficial, while many, like shooting for instance, can often times hurt - especially when it comes to long range target interdiction. Bad habits die hard.
Can you give us a hypothetical example. I'm not entirely sure I'm understanding.
I have run into this almost every time I have been on a range in the military and the range OIC or NCOIC asks "how many here know how to shoot?" And then gets an "oh great" look on his face when all us high speed hooah hooah country boys raise our hands and grin at each other like we're going to show these city boys what for. I have never run into a problem with my shooting even though I do have a pretty unique shooting style, which is what RnderSafe is talking about (hope I'm not putting words in your mouth, Sir). Having used long guns my whole life, I, and most other lifetime firers, have developed my own style, which can be detrimental to the firer's abilities with a new weapon with which he is unfamiliar. We tend to rely on things like Kentucky windage (adjusting where you aim to correct your accuracy instead of adjusting the sights) and, like RnderSafe said, when someone tries to correct these bad habits, a lifetime shooter can be very resistant to the change, either intentionally ("well that's the way I've always done it") or just because they have done it so long that they unconciously fall back into their bad habits.

That help at all?
November 2nd, 2004  
ravensword227
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RnderSafe
Many skills learned from hunting can be beneficial, while many, like shooting for instance, can often times hurt - especially when it comes to long range target interdiction. Bad habits die hard.
Hunters make better snipers or squad designated marksmen than regular riflemen. Trying to tell a hunter to use suppression fire will definitely not sit well with him. “Spray and Pray” is just stupid to him to understand.

Invariably, hunters make the best snipers not only because of their marksmanship but because of their ability to be cohesive to their environment, the woodlands. Some people may concede that a hunter has the potential to be a good soldier, but that doesn’t necessarily mean he will. Those people say that hunting and killing deer, for example, is much easier than killing a human because deer do not shoot back. I disagree; if the soldier(s) cannot spot you they cannot kill you - unless they are indiscriminately using artillery. When I am out hunting, many times I see other hunters that pass by me, whether I am in a tree or on ground; and they never see me. I have had people get so close to me that I could spit on them and they never see me because human senses are very dull. On the other hand, behold the the senses of a white tail deer : her hearing, sight, and smell are hundreds of times better than a human’s. When shooting a wild deer that is in a heavily hunted area (not these corn feed farm deer you see on hunting channels), her nerves are always on the edge and she can actually move a little before the bullet gets there; and the rest of the deer in the area will immediately know where you are and haul-ass at 30-35mph in the opposite direction. In contrast, well trained soldiers will hit the dirt, find cover, and listen for the snap (bullet passing by) and crack (muzzle blast) of the shot so they can locate that sniper, but by that time, two soldiers are likely fallen victim. Most men will panic and fire in different areas, but that has a small chance of hitting anything as the sniper places his shots where they count. And exceptional sniper can wipe out a whole squad or platoon of men if they are unsupported. Case study: Carlos Hathcock. They guy was about as far away from a typical marine as one could get; he used all the techniques he learned hunting to bag his "quarry".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redneck
And then gets an "oh great" look on his face when all us high speed hooah hooah country boys raise our hands and grin at each other like we're going to show these city boys what for.
This is basic or AIT. The drill sargents/instructers don't give a damn about what you think because they are there to break you. They want men who do what they say, period.
November 2nd, 2004  
Redneck
 
 
And you have what experience exactly to back these claims up?
November 2nd, 2004  
ravensword227
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redneck
And you have what experience exactly to back these claims up?
I'm sorry, you are going to have to be specific or I won't know what your're talking about.
November 2nd, 2004  
Redneck
 
 
You sound like you have some special experience both with the military in general and sharpshooting/sniping in particular, I am curious as to what personal experience you have with the subject upon which you are basing your conclusions about hunters and their military abilities.
November 2nd, 2004  
ravensword227
 
I am just a citizen, an avid hunter, and a gun enthusiast. I visit the local range each week to shoot; and it’s usually with my bench rest rifles, but I do have experience with military style shooting. I compete in the high power rifle competition which is bi-annual for us, and usually shoot expert. I have competed against people that are in the service and they have their military style, but I have been able to beat all of them except for my dad, who is a former 101st Airborne sniper. He usually shoots better than what a standard AR-15 (M16A2) is capable of shooting. I have learned a great deal about the military because I talk to my dad and all the vets who show up at the range.

I shoot high power rifle competition with these
I shot this little 3-shot group at 100 yards with my M1A (iron sights) on a bench (I took a 6 Oclock hold)
It went straight to my head, so fogive me for the "bighead" .
This is not me, but it is basically my mentality