Humanitarian Crisis - Page 13




 
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Boots
 
September 27th, 2015  
JOC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Really?

http://www.businessinsider.com/putin...ia-2015-9?IR=T

Sounds to me like they are not far from getting involved.
This article states what I stated: that Russia is stepping up aid to it's long time ally Assad. Even Putin is mum on direct military ground involvement.
If he were to do so it would likely be in a limited manner. There is a bigger picture here.

As for the refugees they deserve the most humane treatment. The west can provide this aid.
September 27th, 2015  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
There is a need for a military intervention in Syria, but who is interested to do it? The political (I include the financial price) price is too high for the west and even for the Russia to conduct a major intervention with ground forces.

There are many moderate Muslims here and many of them begin to express signs of leaving religion when it hasn't treated them well.
September 27th, 2015  
brinktk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Umm I hope this isnt news to you since you have been fairly active in the WW2 thread but the "enemy" isn't going to show up as a horde on horse back with 200,000 infantry and a bunch of elephants, that pretty much died withthe last Iranian agression in 480BC which oddly enough seems to be about where your thinking stopped on this one.

Lets look at ISIS for example they are apparently the biggest threat out there and they claim 200,000 strong where as the CIA claim they are maybe 35,000 strong other numbers I have seen put them around 80,000 but lets assume they are not making things up and they are 200,000 they lack professionalism, they lack a ready supply of heavy weapons, they lack any meaningful communications systems and logistics capability and most of all they lack secure allies all the things a modern army and nation has.

Therefore I fully expect that should this "horde" come steaming out of the desert on their Toyota Camel 4x4 even your 25,000 Belgians would make short work of them.

Outside that I would argue your thinking is outdated at the very least and that modern nations are no longer looking at wars on a long term nation v nation scale but rather short regional wars against insurgencies and oddly enough to defeat terrorism at home you don't need an army you need a stable political system and a content populace and to defeat terrorism abroad you use far smaller numbers of troops.

Now to upset the Americans a little (somewhat unintentionally) but it is American thinking that is out of sync with the way the world is going they spend trillions on a military to defend a nation that is geographically unattackable on a scale that requires a military the size of the US therefore it is geared toward force projection in a world that no longer needs it consequently US foreign policy is geared towards creating an enemy in order to justify its military spending.

No offense guys.
You will get no argument from me on that one. Defense spending is ridiculous in my country. I understand how the "solution looking for a problem" mindset prevails within not only our military, but our congress. Too many politicians pockets are getting deeper because of bloated or unnecessary military programs. The F-35 is perfect example. Military service chiefs have protested that program and have vocalized not wanting these planes at all and still congress is forcing them to have them. Of course, contracts make jobs and jobs make votes...

As for there being no moderates Muslims...this is a ridiculous statement. This is at the least ignorance but I'm going to go ahead and just call it racism. Lljadw doesn't want there to be moderates because then it would make it harder for him to justify in his mind that he wants to exterminate them. He just suggested carpet bmbing them...seriously, you think that will solve the problem? Did it solve the problem in WWII? Of course it didn't...I'm becoming more and more convinced that you are a troll with every interaction.

So you are saying that Europe as a whole can't protect itself and needs America to do it? Thanks but no thanks and F*ck you too! If that isn't entitlement I don't know what is...
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Boots
September 28th, 2015  
JOC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brinktk
You will get no argument from me on that one. Defense spending is ridiculous in my country. I understand how the "solution looking for a problem" mindset prevails within not only our military, but our congress. Too many politicians pockets are getting deeper because of bloated or unnecessary military programs. The F-35 is perfect example. Military service chiefs have protested that program and have vocalized not wanting these planes at all and still congress is forcing them to have them. Of course, contracts make jobs and jobs make votes...
I'm a retired defense-aerospace electronics-electrical engineer. The amount of spending has gone down proportional per product than what it was 15 to 30 years ago," when the military purchased the proverbial $200 claw hammer". Now the military using high grade commercial parts in it's systems (vs. all high cost mil spec parts). In many cases only percentage testing is performed, rather than subjecting each DUT to an mind boggling battery of electrical and environmental tests. Certainly on some products such as the Raptor all precautions are taken, but these tend to be the exception. I know nothing about pocket lining, since I'm not a politician, I speak from a military hardware standpoint.
September 28th, 2015  
brinktk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOC
I'm a retired defense-aerospace electronics-electrical engineer. The amount of spending has gone down proportional per product than what it was 15 to 30 years ago," when the military purchased the proverbial $200 claw hammer". Now the military using high grade commercial parts in it's systems (vs. all high cost mil spec parts). In many cases only percentage testing is performed, rather than subjecting each DUT to an mind boggling battery of electrical and environmental tests. Certainly on some products such as the Raptor all precautions are taken, but these tend to be the exception. I know nothing about pocket lining, since I'm not a politician, I speak from a military hardware standpoint.
And it seems the military contractors have a firm grip on the military and her equipment. The software that comes out is still ridiculously buggy and we all joke the contractors make it that way to ensure their job security.

The story I'm about to tell is anecdotal but it illustrates a point. I had 4 pieces of equipment I was signed for at my last unit(among many others). This equipment was aupposed to be an enabler to allow forward observers to send fire orders to fire direction centers digitally. The problem is that they don't work. Every Monday we would have to have digital sustainment training (every FO in the Brigade was required to) and every Monday, civilian contractors from BAE were out in our motor pool trying to get these things to talk to one another...it took hours to even get one of them to work. it wasn't just my section that had problems either...I could see almost every FiST section in the Brigade struggle with same problems...guess how much each one of these pieces of equipment is worth?....$28,000.00. The BAE contractors also have to be paid at no less than $25.00-$35.00 per hour...and this was just for these systems....there are hundreds of systems like this in our Army.

I could have found much better uses of my and my soldiers time than to spend hours trying to work an overcomplicated and expensive piece of equipment that would only give us marginally faster fire orders when working perfectly. This is just one example of how that money gets wasted, I could give a thousand more from my personal experience alone...
September 28th, 2015  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOC
This article states what I stated: that Russia is stepping up aid to it's long time ally Assad. Even Putin is mum on direct military ground involvement.
If he were to do so it would likely be in a limited manner. There is a bigger picture here.

As for the refugees they deserve the most humane treatment. The west can provide this aid.
You know I am not sure Putin knows how to do anything in a limited manner, I would also point out that Putin is also "mum" on the Crimea and Ukraine.

As for the refugees you are right but they do not have to be in Europe for that to happen, the best thing the West could do is help sort out Syria so they dont have to be refugees in the first place.
September 28th, 2015  
JOC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brinktk
And it seems the military contractors have a firm grip on the military and her equipment. The software that comes out is still ridiculously buggy and we all joke the contractors make it that way to ensure their job security.

The story I'm about to tell is anecdotal but it illustrates a point. I had 4 pieces of equipment I was signed for at my last unit(among many others). This equipment was aupposed to be an enabler to allow forward observers to send fire orders to fire direction centers digitally. The problem is that they don't work. Every Monday we would have to have digital sustainment training (every FO in the Brigade was required to) and every Monday, civilian contractors from BAE were out in our motor pool trying to get these things to talk to one another...it took hours to even get one of them to work. it wasn't just my section that had problems either...I could see almost every FiST section in the Brigade struggle with same problems...guess how much each one of these pieces of equipment is worth?....$28,000.00. The BAE contractors also have to be paid at no less than $25.00-$35.00 per hour...and this was just for these systems....there are hundreds of systems like this in our Army.

I could have found much better uses of my and my soldiers time than to spend hours trying to work an overcomplicated and expensive piece of equipment that would only give us marginally faster fire orders when working perfectly. This is just one example of how that money gets wasted, I could give a thousand more from my personal experience alone...
It a shame that these devices "likely some type of communication device" feel victim to feature creep. Either the civilian contractor or some high level military group must have convinced themselves that all these extra's would improve the product and instead they overcomplicated it to the point of making it difficult - useless to use. Sometimes in order to meet deadlines companies will reduce the time to market without the product being fully debugged. It's a shame this can't be brought to the responsible parties attention and have the corrections made. This is ridiculous for soldiers in the field to have to deal with such junk. I will not say the communications devices and radars I worked on were not completely bug free under all possible circumstances but I will say they operated in a straightway manner and were generally quite reliable.
September 29th, 2015  
JOC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOC
It a shame that these devices "likely some type of communication device" feel victim to feature creep. Either the civilian contractor or some high level military group must have convinced themselves that all these extra's would improve the product and instead they overcomplicated it to the point of making it difficult - useless to use. Sometimes in order to meet deadlines companies will reduce the time to market without the product being fully debugged. It's a shame this can't be brought to the responsible parties attention and have the corrections made. This is ridiculous for soldiers in the field to have to deal with such junk. I will not say the communications devices and radars I worked on were not completely bug free under all possible circumstances but I will say they operated in a straightway manner and were generally quite reliable.
I know that 2 way handheld radio's developed by Harris were a fine piece of equipment and were appreciated by the troops in both Iraq and Afghanistan, I was proud to help in this development.
September 29th, 2015  
lljadw
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOC

As for the refugees they deserve the most humane treatment.


The west can provide this aid.
1)Why?

2)Proof?

3) There is no proof that even 1 % of the people who are entering Europe illegally are refugees ,thus we must part from the assumption that they are all migrants.

4)the arrival of these migrants in Europe is nefast ,they create only problems

5) The sooner they are leaving Europe, the better ..
September 29th, 2015  
JOC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
1)Why?

2)Proof?

3) There is no proof that even 1 % of the people who are entering Europe illegally are refugees ,thus we must part from the assumption that they are all migrants.

4)the arrival of these migrants in Europe is nefast ,they create only problems

5) The sooner they are leaving Europe, the better ..
1st and foremost they are people and should be treated how you would want to be treated in a similar situation. I don't know about this legal vs. illegal refugee issue. That's a tough not to crack. What I'm talking about is the west (including Belgium) has the resources to provide food, housing and medical treatment for those fleeing - forced off their land by murderous aggressors, such as ISIS and others. Of course it creates issues, it does so for the US as well which receives millions upon millions of mostly economic refugees (many of which are illegal). Still the have's should help the have not's. I don't pretend to have all the answers. However I will not turn my back on my fellow man, particularly when his home is ruined - made unsafe and he is driven out by murderous thugs.

I do state that a government must take care of it's own before it should provide for others outside it's borders. Unfortunately the US sometimes provides more for others than for it's own who chaff under extreme increases in health care, among other things, but that off topic.
 


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