Humanitarian Crisis - Page 12




 
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Humanitarian Crisis
 
September 26th, 2015  
lljadw
 
Humanitarian Crisis
Quote:
Originally Posted by brinktk
Smoke and mirror fear mongering.

Oh, I guess Turkey doesn't count in your definition of a democracy...KIND OF LIKE ISRAEL!


The fact is that they can't get along long enough to do anything. This is a Muslim problem that needs to be handled by Muslims. It is time for the moderate Muslims to start stomping down on the radicals. If we keep intervening and helping dictators and governments that oppress them...including Israel, we are only supplying them with the motivation and unifying factors that keep the moderates from reigning in their crazies. We can't hold them accountable while we drone strike them into oblivion on questionable intelligence. We supply them with that form of terror, then why oh why are we surprised when they respond in kind with carbombs?

This stuff isn't rocket science. They don't hate our "freedom"...they hate our foreign policy. And what nuclear weapons? How do you think they are going to hit us with a nuke huh? What means of delivery do they have to do it? You're living in a fantasy if you believe that even a nuclear armed non state actor would be able to easily set off a nuke. Can you imagine what the response would be to that? You must think these people are stupid or something.

However, if you're so concerned about it then why don't you go and get your like minded continental Europeans together and force your government to do something about it. You know, spend a couple thousand Belgian lives in Mesopotamia or Central Asia while spending hundreds of billions of dollars for questionable reasons under questionable circumstances. Or, if you're so convicted about it, why don't you reimburse the US for providing you your safety since you're in such danger.

Didn't think so. You'd rather us, the Brits, Aussies, and Canadians to foot the bill in bodies and money. Like I said before, it is about time Continental Europe start paying their dues if you are expecting intervention in unwinnable wars.
Continental Europe has no longer armed forces neither has it any money .Belgian armed forces are 25000 ,and only 1 or 2 batallions are operational .

But the US situation is not better : the army has only 400000 men .

The war in Syria is not unwinnable : strong air attacks will suffice:air attacks as in WWII :if the Allies could destroy the German cities,they can destroy ISIS.

But,sadly enough,it is a pipe dream : the present POTUS never will agree : he will never give orders that could result in the death of a lot of Muslims .
September 26th, 2015  
lljadw
 
Other points :

Turkey is ruled by an Islamist,enemy of the West and of Israel .

Moderate Muslims ?You still fail to understand that the ME is not the US : there are NO moderate Muslims :they all hate Israel and the West .

After 9/11 they had the opportunity to prove that they are moderate ,by demonstrating against Al-Qada and by supporting the US ,they demonstrated ... to show their joy .
September 26th, 2015  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
Continental Europe has no longer armed forces neither has it any money .Belgian armed forces are 25000 ,and only 1 or 2 batallions are operational .

But the US situation is not better : the army has only 400000 men .

The war in Syria is not unwinnable : strong air attacks will suffice:air attacks as in WWII :if the Allies could destroy the German cities,they can destroy ISIS.

But,sadly enough,it is a pipe dream : the present POTUS never will agree : he will never give orders that could result in the death of a lot of Muslims .
Umm I hope this isnt news to you since you have been fairly active in the WW2 thread but the "enemy" isn't going to show up as a horde on horse back with 200,000 infantry and a bunch of elephants, that pretty much died withthe last Iranian agression in 480BC which oddly enough seems to be about where your thinking stopped on this one.

Lets look at ISIS for example they are apparently the biggest threat out there and they claim 200,000 strong where as the CIA claim they are maybe 35,000 strong other numbers I have seen put them around 80,000 but lets assume they are not making things up and they are 200,000 they lack professionalism, they lack a ready supply of heavy weapons, they lack any meaningful communications systems and logistics capability and most of all they lack secure allies all the things a modern army and nation has.

Therefore I fully expect that should this "horde" come steaming out of the desert on their Toyota Camel 4x4 even your 25,000 Belgians would make short work of them.

Outside that I would argue your thinking is outdated at the very least and that modern nations are no longer looking at wars on a long term nation v nation scale but rather short regional wars against insurgencies and oddly enough to defeat terrorism at home you don't need an army you need a stable political system and a content populace and to defeat terrorism abroad you use far smaller numbers of troops.

Now to upset the Americans a little (somewhat unintentionally) but it is American thinking that is out of sync with the way the world is going they spend trillions on a military to defend a nation that is geographically unattackable on a scale that requires a military the size of the US therefore it is geared toward force projection in a world that no longer needs it consequently US foreign policy is geared towards creating an enemy in order to justify its military spending.

No offense guys.
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Humanitarian Crisis
September 26th, 2015  
JOC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
they lack a ready supply of heavy weapons.
I will just address this statement. ISIS does indeed possess heavy weapons Abrams tanks, heavy artillery, rocket launchers, Combat ready Humvees to name a few. These were either obtained at the expense of the retreating Iraqi army or purchased via the black market with their oil money.
September 26th, 2015  
JOC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
Other points : Moderate Muslims ?You still fail to understand that the ME is not the US : there are NO moderate Muslims :they all hate Israel and the West.
I think it would be an exaggeration to say their are no moderate regimes or countries in the ME, Tunisia, Morocco, Lebanon, perhaps Jordon some of the gulf states are moderate. However they do tend to be the exception.
September 27th, 2015  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOC
I will just address this statement. ISIS does indeed possess heavy weapons Abrams tanks, heavy artillery, rocket launchers, Combat ready Humvees to name a few. These were either obtained at the expense of the retreating Iraqi army or purchased via the black market with their oil money.
I think it would be a stretch to say that they could bring enough of those weapons to bare to be effective against any of Europes military forces though.

It is one thing to have a supply of captured equipment and quite another to be able to maintain and supply the quantities needed to fight an offensive war against a trained and armed nation.
September 27th, 2015  
JOC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
I think it would be a stretch to say that they could bring enough of those weapons to bare to be effective against any of Europes military forces though.

It is one thing to have a supply of captured equipment and quite another to be able to maintain and supply the quantities needed to fight an offensive war against a trained and armed nation.
Like many 3rd world nations and subversive groups possessing military hardware they often do not use them to there utmost efficiency. However the fact remains they have the weaponry and have used it to their advantage against the Kurds and Shite Muslims. It is not logical to speak about them fighting a well armed well trained western power because no such power is currently at war with ISIS.
As for Russia they may step up their aid to Assad a long time ally, but it's very unlikely they will become directly involved in any terrestrial conflict. I don't see any other Eurasian power doing so on a large scale either. Iran is protecting their interesting and preventing the subversives from spilling over into their territory with limit military assistance.
September 27th, 2015  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOC
As for Russia they may step up their aid to Assad a long time ally, but it's very unlikely they will become directly involved in any terrestrial conflict. I don't see any other Eurasian power doing so on a large scale either. Iran is protecting their interesting and preventing the subversives from spilling over into their territory with limit military assistance.
Really?

http://www.businessinsider.com/putin...ia-2015-9?IR=T

Sounds to me like they are not far from getting involved.
September 27th, 2015  
lljadw
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOC
I think it would be an exaggeration to say their are no moderate regimes or countries in the ME, Tunisia, Morocco, Lebanon, perhaps Jordon some of the gulf states are moderate. However they do tend to be the exception.

I did not say that there were no moderate regimes,but that there were no moderate Muslims : it was Erdogan who said that a moderate Islam did not exist .

Not hindered by any knowledge,western journalist are transposing western notions as left wing,right wing, moderate,extremist,conservative,etc, to the ME where they have no sense at all : Shiites are not left and Sunnites are no right .

Some Muslims are proposing to hang adulterous women and others propose to stone them,but that does not mean that the former are moderate and the others extremists.
September 27th, 2015  
JOC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
I did not say that there were no moderate regimes,but that there were no moderate Muslims : it was Erdogan who said that a moderate Islam did not exist .

Not hindered by any knowledge,western journalist are transposing western notions as left wing,right wing, moderate,extremist,conservative,etc, to the ME where they have no sense at all : Shiites are not left and Sunnites are no right .

Some Muslims are proposing to hang adulterous women and others propose to stone them,but that does not mean that the former are moderate and the others extremists.
Both military and missionary friends of mine who have been there, They state that many of the people living in these countries are just average people trying to make a living and have no desire to get involved with the extremist. Unfortunately it's often the extremist that get all the headlines. This information comes to me from people who have spent time in Iraq, Iran Afghanistan and Chechnya. I am in no way disagreeing with the fact that dangerous radical elements exist in many - most ME countries. However one cannot throw out the baby with the bathwater.
 


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