Humanitarian Crisis - Page 11




 
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Boots
 
September 24th, 2015  
brinktk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
1)Moral reasons : Israel is the only democracy in the ME
:The fall of Israel will result in the extermination of all the other Jews

2)Political reasons : there is a strong Israel lobby in the US

3)Strategical reasons : the enemies of Israel are also the enemies of the US,but not the enemies of Obama ;
: the fall of Israel will result in a nuclear war with dozens of million deaths.
:after the fall of Israel,it will be the turn of the US .

But Obama does not care : if to accomplish his liberal dream,Israel must disappear, so be it .
Why should we care about a democracy in the ME? Isn't Turkey a democracy also?

The US doesn't need anything from the ME. I'm positive that if we stopped meddling there more than half of our problems would go away in regards to radical Islam. Now Europe might have something to worry about...which in my mind, would be a good incentive for them to pick up either the mission, or the tab. It's time that continental Europe start pulling their weight when it comes defense and military operations. Many many many Americans are losing interest in what is going on over there...we have more than enough problems at home.
September 24th, 2015  
lljadw
 
Turkey is no democracy .

Someone as Obama,his mouth always full about democracy and human rights,is at the same time abandoning the only democracy in the ME (Israel)in favour of non democratic muslim countries AND he is trying to impose on the ME his insane liberal fallacies,something which everyone knows, will fail.
September 24th, 2015  
lljadw
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brinktk

The US doesn't need anything from the ME. I'm positive that if we stopped meddling there more than half of our problems would go away in regards to radical Islam. .

You are wrong : running away will not prevent 9/11 bis,and this time with nuclear weapons .

The fact is that the radical Muslims want to destroy the US .
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Boots
September 24th, 2015  
lljadw
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brinktk
Cognitive Dissonance...That's all I'm gonna say...
Is there anything wrong in it ?
September 24th, 2015  
brinktk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
You are wrong : running away will not prevent 9/11 bis,and this time with nuclear weapons .

The fact is that the radical Muslims want to destroy the US .

Smoke and mirror fear mongering.

Oh, I guess Turkey doesn't count in your definition of a democracy...KIND OF LIKE ISRAEL!


The fact is that they can't get along long enough to do anything. This is a Muslim problem that needs to be handled by Muslims. It is time for the moderate Muslims to start stomping down on the radicals. If we keep intervening and helping dictators and governments that oppress them...including Israel, we are only supplying them with the motivation and unifying factors that keep the moderates from reigning in their crazies. We can't hold them accountable while we drone strike them into oblivion on questionable intelligence. We supply them with that form of terror, then why oh why are we surprised when they respond in kind with carbombs?

This stuff isn't rocket science. They don't hate our "freedom"...they hate our foreign policy. And what nuclear weapons? How do you think they are going to hit us with a nuke huh? What means of delivery do they have to do it? You're living in a fantasy if you believe that even a nuclear armed non state actor would be able to easily set off a nuke. Can you imagine what the response would be to that? You must think these people are stupid or something.

However, if you're so concerned about it then why don't you go and get your like minded continental Europeans together and force your government to do something about it. You know, spend a couple thousand Belgian lives in Mesopotamia or Central Asia while spending hundreds of billions of dollars for questionable reasons under questionable circumstances. Or, if you're so convicted about it, why don't you reimburse the US for providing you your safety since you're in such danger.

Didn't think so. You'd rather us, the Brits, Aussies, and Canadians to foot the bill in bodies and money. Like I said before, it is about time Continental Europe start paying their dues if you are expecting intervention in unwinnable wars.
September 24th, 2015  
JOC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brinktk
Smoke and mirror fear mongering.

Oh, I guess Turkey doesn't count in your definition of a democracy...KIND OF LIKE ISRAEL!


The fact is that they can't get along long enough to do anything. This is a Muslim problem that needs to be handled by Muslims. It is time for the moderate Muslims to start stomping down on the radicals. If we keep intervening and helping dictators and governments that oppress them...including Israel, we are only supplying them with the motivation and unifying factors that keep the moderates from reigning in their crazies. We can't hold them accountable while we drone strike them into oblivion on questionable intelligence. We supply them with that form of terror, then why oh why are we surprised when they respond in kind with carbombs?

This stuff isn't rocket science. They don't hate our "freedom"...they hate our foreign policy. And what nuclear weapons? How do you think they are going to hit us with a nuke huh? What means of delivery do they have to do it? You're living in a fantasy if you believe that even a nuclear armed non state actor would be able to easily set off a nuke. Can you imagine what the response would be to that? You must think these people are stupid or something.

However, if you're so concerned about it then why don't you go and get your like minded continental Europeans together and force your government to do something about it. You know, spend a couple thousand Belgian lives in Mesopotamia or Central Asia while spending hundreds of billions of dollars for questionable reasons under questionable circumstances. Or, if you're so convicted about it, why don't you reimburse the US for providing you your safety since you're in such danger.

Didn't think so. You'd rather us, the Brits, Aussies, and Canadians to foot the bill in bodies and money. Like I said before, it is about time Continental Europe start paying their dues if you are expecting intervention in unwinnable wars.
Isn’t this a contradiction? In general the strong (the radicals) will over power the weaker (being the rest). With this being the case it’s unlikely that moderate Muslims will come to power. They are not willing to kill all who stand in their way and blow themselves up. There are exception Tunisia, Turkey, Lebanon but they tend to be the exception.

Do you think after a showing like 9-11, that ISIS, AL-Qaeda or any number of extremist organizations wouldn’t jump at the opportunity to set off an atomic bomb in the US? The delivery would be on a small scale say suitcase sized bomb.

Full scale involvement - occupation, etc. seems to only give the US a black eye, this I agree with. As for airstrikes, drones and small scale special forces operations for humanitarian or strategic interest needs are required I can see.

It is doughtful that Belgium has the military hardware needed to take on such missions. However with the present state of affairs they should move in that direction.
September 24th, 2015  
brinktk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOC
Isn’t this a contradiction? In general the strong (the radicals) will over power the weaker (being the rest). With this being the case it’s unlikely that moderate Muslims will come to power. They are not willing to kill all who stand in their way and blow themselves up. There are exception Tunisia, Turkey, Lebanon but they tend to be the exception.

Do you think after a showing like 9-11, that ISIS, AL-Qaeda or any number of extremist organizations wouldn’t jump at the opportunity to set off an atomic bomb in the US? The delivery would be on a small scale say suitcase sized bomb.

Full scale involvement - occupation, etc. seems to only give the US a black eye, this I agree with. As for airstrikes, drones and small scale special forces operations for humanitarian or strategic interest needs are required I can see.

It is doughtful that Belgium has the military hardware needed to take on such missions. However with the present state of affairs they should move in that direction.
The strong ARE NOT the radicals. The moderates represent 90% of the Muslim population and they are ones that need to fight these radicals off.

Sure they would jump at the opportunity to set off a nuke in the US. However, I don't think we are the first on their list to do so, especially if we stop meddling in their affairs. A simple desire to do something does not mean they can do it. Miniaturizing a nuclear weapon to suitcase size is an extremely difficult task and easily traceable. Then you have to get it to where you want to hit. It is far more likely they would hit Israel or Europe due to less travel restrictions, much more access, and less chance of security forces intervention. They know the second they have their hands on a nuke, it is a matter of time before they are tracked down and the nuke nullified.

I also don't think they are so stupid as to not realize them successfully getting one off would galvanize the ENTIRE WORLD against them and the cumulative military efforts of every major power would be working to exterminate them. Further more, Islamic governments would also be forced to start cracking down on them in detail because undoubtedly, western governments would threaten and follow through with direct military intervention. Which we all know is no good for anyone.

The radicals getting a nuke off would be the worst thing they can do PERIOD. It is likely one of the very few single acts that will force the hand of the hit country and her allies to retaliate with ridiculously overwhelming force. Which would likely mean the culpable groups extermination.

It is almost impossible for nation states to aquire nuclear weapons anymore let alone non nation states. And again, simply having a nuke doesnt mean you can effectively deliver it. Fortunately for us, every practical way they could deliver it is easily interceptable. Every non practicle way of deliver is not easily concealed.

In other words, anyone who really thinks nukes are a realistic option for radical Islam is very gullible and anyone spreading this fallacy is fear mongering.

My comment about footing the butchers bill was also directed at the rest of western europe as well. Except of course our greatest of REAL allies over there, the Brits and the Danes.
September 25th, 2015  
JOC
 
 
As is with many countries the 10% controls the majority. Of course the majority want to live out there lives in peace under a moderate regime. Do you see it happening in the history of the region? Ideally the moderate majority (average folks) would win out but this doesn't have a way of happening in the ME.

Did I say it was easy concerning an atomic attack, no! But not outside of the realm of possibilities. It would likely come from a an ex Soviet state or perhaps Iran in days to come or? These people have a lot of money. Of course it would be difficult to get it within our borders, but remember how much contraband (drugs and weapons) does make into the US. I speak of possibilities vs. probabilities, not fear mongering.
September 25th, 2015  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
The "good" voices within the Islamic communities really need to take the stand to fight the extremists. They need to be heard and seen. There is one country that have achieved this in a really good way and that is the US. There is rather low amount of extremists originated from the US, there was one but he's gone now in the American citizen reduction program implemented by the US government. (watch the daily news on Comedy Central)

One part of me thinks we shall leave the Middle East alone and letting them figure things out. Think about how the Western world got its society, but the consequences would be severe. I think we need to help these refugees and viewing them all as terrorists tell more about peoples paranoia than the threat from terrorism.
September 26th, 2015  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
One part of me thinks we shall leave the Middle East alone and letting them figure things out. Think about how the Western world got its society, but the consequences would be severe. I think we need to help these refugees and viewing them all as terrorists tell more about peoples paranoia than the threat from terrorism.
Helping refugees is fine but allowing them to relocate around the world is not the answer, I remain convinced that aid should be going in to refugee camps around Syria to keep them there and the west has to be looking at a concrete plan to stabilise Syria even if that means bringing in the Iranians and Russians.

The problem with that is that we are in fact still trying to play political games and the desire to solve the issue is not really there.
 


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