Originally Posted by RayManKiller3

You didn't say anything that makes what I said wrong. I was specifically talking about self-perceived rights as you stated. I didn't say these rights were the right ways of thinking.

We are talking about the "Right" to self defence, "Rights" are enshrined in law, and have nothing whatsoever to do with what you think. (Perceived Rights)

The rights in law is just to set a standard imo. It is to make sure people do not harm the rights of others or take advantage of their rights. Anyone can say which one is flawed though.

There, you said it yourself, International law (in fact all Law) is the standard to which we must conform. Not law as interpreted by your imagination.

So the answer to your original statement that the Israeli aggressors had a "Right" to defend themselves is completely without any support, with the obvious exception of your own, imaginary ideas, which I'm afraid have nothing to do with this debate, and furthermore you obviously have not read the latest news. Israel's Blockade declared Illegal

I guess this is relevant and somewhat interesting...

Turkish PM saw Gaza raid as "grounds for war"

By Ibon Villelabeitia
ANKARA | Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:06am EDT
(Reuters) - Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan saw "grounds for war" with Israel last year after a deadly raid on a Turkish ship headed for Gaza, according to a transcript of a recent interview.

State news agency Anatolia released late on Sunday what it said was an original Turkish-language transcript of an interview Erdogan gave to Al Jazeera television last week. It included elements not broadcast as well as original wording for sensitive comments that had been transmitted only in Arabic translation.

Among previously unpublished elements, Erdogan said Israel's raid in May 2010 on a Turkish ship headed for Gaza, in which nine Turks were killed, would have justified going to war.

"The attack that took place in international waters did not comply with any international law. In fact, it was grounds for war. However, befitting Turkey's greatness, we decided to act with patience," he said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...78B2O320110912

I am sorry, but these same people saying politics before humantarian aid are playing the same thing. Some of these people don't even want Israel there or side with Palastinians, so of course they will try to make the blockade illegal.

If this was United States or U.K doing the same thing, who would contest it except for political reasons itself? You saying your respective government won't do the same to stop terrorists lauching rockets into civillian lands? This is war between Hamas and Israel, you can't beat terrorism by being "soft", but its also true you can't beat it being harsh or being questioned repeatedly. They should not have to allow "humanitarian" ships into Gaza unchecked. The blockade is legal and even so, many countries have used blockades to keep their enemies in line. It is not like Irael's goal is to kill off the innocents, the only problem with what they are doing is that humanitarian aid does not come as fast as they like/need.

No one should be able to move ships whether its humanitarian or military without being searched if its headed into hostile territory of a nation that is REALLY close to you. If the Palastinians want the blockade to stop, they should create a navy themselves. It would be different if they were a great distance for Israel and Israel went way over to them to blockade them, but this is a bordering area that keeps sending rockets into it's land.

Turkey is being silly in the actions it has taken. Calling it "grounds for war" is a great way to stir more regional instability and also make one question their motives. I can say for sure, U.S will not back any hostile action from Turkey towards Israel. They want Israel to apologize for the results of its blockade, well they won't have it, so they should just drop it.


It is the responsibility of the Israeli government to make sure it's citizens are safe so long as their reaction is humane and cautious.

Originally Posted by RayManKiller3

No one should be able to move ships whether its humanitarian or military without being searched if its headed into hostile territory of a nation that is REALLY close to you. If the Palastinians want the blockade to stop, they should create a navy themselves. It would be different if they were a great distance for Israel and Israel went way over to them to blockade them, but this is a bordering area that keeps sending rockets into it's land.

You have neglected one very salient point, the Blockade is illegal and is in fact an act of overt aggression, a fact that has been recognised by virtually every Maritime nation in the world since it's inception.

The very recent UN admission of this fact hardly counts for anything as we all knew it from the beginning. Even the US knows it, but prefers to play political games.

None of which excuses your initial statement that the Israelis had a right to murder those aboard the Gaza flotilla who were acting legally within the International Maritime Law.

If you wish to talk about rocket attacks, it's already been done in earlier threads where it was pointed out that the Gazans never started sending these fireworks (they don't really deserve to be called rockets in a military sense) until nearly 12 months after the refusal of Israel to allow enough food and other humanitarian aid to Gaza as promised in the preceding cease fire talks.

The fact is that the Israelis deliberately provoked this response from the Palestinians as an excuse to "punish" them, and "stick it up" world opinion, for forcing the Israelis withdraw from Gaza in September 2005.

Originally Posted by benaakatz

If it was up to you how would you put it to rest?

genocide is frowned upon as a solution

frown away. the extermination of Hamas and Hezbollah.

http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPol...aspx?id=237937

it seems like the palestinians can say anything and get away with it.

remember we are talking about "zionists" not jews, nevermind the fact that the vast majority of jewish people in the world are zionists...a fact zionist bashers never address....if zionists must go, then essentially you are saying we must do away with 99% of the jewish people...including me

did you know that the zionists were responsible for both world wars? iran's president asserts so



those silly jews. how dare they want their own homeland! it's not like jews have ever been in any danger...

how dare german jews seek refuge in mandate palestine! they should've stayed home and walked openly into the ovens. that's right, people forget that NO country opened their doors to jews during ww2

stupid jews wanting their own state...

Originally Posted by benaakatz

did you know that the zionists were responsible for both world wars? iran's president asserts so



those silly jews. how dare they want their own homeland! it's not like jews have ever been in any danger...

how dare german jews seek refuge in mandate palestine! they should've stayed home and walked openly into the ovens. that's right, people forget that NO country opened their doors to jews during ww2

stupid jews wanting their own state...

far as the *******s are concerned there was no Holocaust. a total fake.

I for one think there probably should be a Jewish state. If you know history, Jews have been persecuted multiple times, by a great deal of religious groups. Romans, then comes the Christians twice. If the society that holds the Jewish community can not protect the Jews from attempts at successful genocide, then maybe it would be best for them to defend and depend only on themselves for safety. That is one of the reasons why the Israel was created. History already proves that Jews have more more claim to the land than the Palestinians. Read up on it if you want. I am tired of all the anti-Israel comments, you will find that anyone will do what they can to stop something if they are against it. Such as claiming the blockade as illegal, its unfortunate, but war WILL affect those that are in the vicinity.

U.S and U.K would have done the same thing I am sure if they had some terrorist group in their backyard. You think U.S will allow humanitarian ships to go to enemies without checking on it when it concerns the imminent threat of U.S civilians. No, we wouldn't!

I do believe a compromised would be beneficial, but at the moment it seems impossible. The Middle-East have always been an unstable part of the world and probably won't change for a couple of decades (or at least until the extreme religious groups die off and education succeeds). Also, saying the Bible is fantasy is quite an ignorant statement, as it has scientific and historical backing that some if not all of what it contains; happened, came to be, or is becoming apparent. (seen this in earlier threads and posts)

How to solve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict; let time go on and education rise in the surrounding areas, as we just may see this disappear. Maybe a century or two (assuming the education phase works and they topple any non-democratic regimes in the area). Moving the Israeli's is unacceptable and I consider it illegal in itself of Israel's sovereignty that they earned when they established their independence. Telling Israel to move out is like telling the Palestinians to move out, they are all in vast numbers and should not be screwed over because of Britain's decision.

Originally Posted by benaakatz

did you know that the zionists were responsible for both world wars? iran's president asserts so



those silly jews. how dare they want their own homeland! it's not like jews have ever been in any danger...

how dare german jews seek refuge in mandate palestine! they should've stayed home and walked openly into the ovens. that's right, people forget that NO country opened their doors to jews during ww2

stupid jews wanting their own state...

Jews are no more than a religious group who have made themselves unpopular wherever they have gone, Have you ever wondered why there is not similar ill feeling towards lets say,.. The Baptists of the world, or the Methodists. Not even these tax rorting "Charismatic" religions are subjected to the same amount of distrust and dislike as the Jews. Have you ever wondered why this is so?

The nearest thing to a really unpopular religion that I can think of is Scientology, which was started in the USA. I guess you feel that they should be entitled to start their own theocratic state, encompassing the best and most valuable land in the USA?

Stop talking drivel, it belittles you.