Ok, understood.

Originally Posted by Panzercracker

Degman looks like an upgraded M-84 so its more like a 2nd gen tank (just like pingpong).

It is, Croatia just modernised it so it can compete with other tanks. The Serbian M-84AS is a extremely upgraded version of the Yugoslav M-84. Its more related to a T-90 than it is to a T-72 [It has the Shtora-1 defense suite = win]

EDIT - The Degman is still pretty good. Kuwait is planning to buy about 50-60 of them I think.

Originally Posted by Zastava-Arms

It is, Croatia just modernised it so it can compete with other tanks. The Serbian M-84AS is a extremely upgraded version of the Yugoslav M-84. Its more related to a T-90 than it is to a T-72 [It has the Shtora-1 defense suite = win]

EDIT - The Degman is still pretty good. Kuwait is planning to buy about 50-60 of them I think.

One immidiate problem with Degman is that its underarmored (i'd have to look into specifics to know anything more about it) but at 44 tonnes it just wont have enough armor to compete with modern Western MBTs, for example both Ariete and Leclerc are a full 10 tonnes heavier.

and both are damn light for MBT as well...

the big 4 are about 70-80 tons right?
seems like the others would need much more work to compete against those

Originally Posted by EladBell

the big 4 are about 70-80 tons right?
seems like the others would need much more work to compete against those

No actually Leopard is 120 tons and Abrams is 210 tons, M1A2 is 600 tons, has 20 turrets and shoots lasers.

Eastern European tanks are all like 200kg and steam powered, they shoot paintballs too.

hello mister Sarcazm

Originally Posted by EladBell

hello mister Sarcazm

The heaviest tank out there is the M1A2, its combat load is 69 tonnes, ammo and everything and thats already too much.

Knowing what I do about Chinese manufacturing QC I will reserve judgment on their newest shiny penny till a few of them do a turn in head to head combat in harsh conditions... if the electronics and mechanical pieces can withstand more than 30 days duty I'd be shocked.

The heaviest tank out there is the M1A2, its combat load is 69 tonnes, ammo and everything and thats already too much.

I think that a simple look at the fac that the IDF dpecifies the same weight for the Merkava Mk 2, 3 and 4 is fisshy. I never put an MK 4 on scales but I doubt it is "only" 65 tons. My guess would be 75-80.