How the Iran-Syria defense pact may affect

[A Can of Man]

LeMask, there are plenty of people who are already killing to make a point. Just to make a point. So I think the guys who go around to universities to ask stupid questions and have a fist fight are hardly a priority. It's not good obviously. If they do beat someone up they should be arrested for assault. But in terms of actually setting aside resources to end their campaign, we don't have enough cops.
Yes there are many people in the world who are eager to support Israel. Many of those individuals are also members of this board and they come from all over the world.

 

[UnitedSomalia]

Rock45, their were many American military men that served with the Israeli military through the various Arab-Israeli wars. If they were active duty, discharged, or reserves I do not know, because Israel doesn't release info on foreigners that have served in its military and neither does the Americans, but General Shazli who planned and commanded the Egyptian forces in 1973 war stated that many of the Israeli soldiers captured on the Egyptian and Syrian front were with great certainty not Israelis, he said many of them when questioned by commanders stated that they were American soldiers. If you want to find out all you have to do is google it, type Americans serving with Israel or type General Shazli and read up on his memoirs.

Sherman, Lebonan is not Syria. Egypt, Iran, Pakistan and all the Islamic world will not let Syria fall to Israel, Syria is to strategic for the Muslim world to let Israel destroy them. Lebonan is important but of little strategic value compared to Syria. If Damascus was about to fall, I wouldn't be surprised to see Egyptian crossing the border into Israel, Iran and Pakistan sending many soldiers, and the Gulf countries pouring in trillions of dollars to and hardware for Syria. Trust me in the world of economic uncertainty, if the Americans send an airlift or activiley helping Israel and Damascus is threatened, the Arab countries have a very powerful tool also its called oil. All they have to do is pull the plug on all oil for the West, and American will pull the carpet under Israel's feet in a heartbeat and tell them not to get anywhere near Damascus. The economy is in shambles and the world financial market is in turmoil, the West would not be able to handle an oil embargo.

 

[SHERMAN]

but General Shazli who planned and commanded the Egyptian forces in 1973 war stated that many of the Israeli soldiers captured on the Egyptian and Syrian front were with great certainty not Israelis,

LOL...Thats a very good source Almost as good as the Iraqis who said that Bravo 2-0 were Israelis not british. Again there is no doubt that some American Jews came to Israel and served in it armed forces. This is of no importance as they were usually dual citizenship holders.

Sherman, Lebonan is not Syria. Egypt, Iran, Pakistan and all the Islamic world will not let Syria fall to Israel, Syria is to strategic for the Muslim world to let Israel destroy them. Lebonan is important but of little strategic value compared to Syria. If Damascus was about to fall, I wouldn't be surprised to see Egyptian crossing the border into Israel, Iran and Pakistan sending many soldiers, and the Gulf countries pouring in trillions of dollars to and hardware for Syria.

Where do you live? Sriously? Is it on planet earth? In 1973 Israel was days from taking Damascus, and they got one Iraqi Division and one Jordanian brigade(both lost to Israeli reserves mounted on Sherman taks...). Why would any golf country send money to help Syria, an ally of Iran, which is the country they hate and fear? What on earth makes you think the already overstreched Pakistani military will move thousends of Kilometers to help Syria? As to the Egyptians, I already explained that there is little chance they will fight Israel. Egypt has better relations with Israel than with Syria. And even if they do cross the cannal, they still have to cross sinai to get to Israel.

Trust me in the world of economic uncertainty, if the Americans send an airlift or activiley helping Israel and Damascus is threatened, the Arab countries have a very powerful tool also its called oil. All they have to do is pull the plug on all oil for the West, and American will pull the carpet under Israel's feet in a heartbeat and tell them not to get anywhere near Damascus. The economy is in shambles and the world financial market is in turmoil, the West would not be able to handle an oil embargo.

Now, that on the other hand happened before. That is a real possibilty. However you need to remember that the Gulf countries are suffering as much as the west from the economic crisis. Also some of those countries hate Syria and espcially Iran more than they hate Israel.

Ovcourse, all of this is way more than just the Iranian influence, but like I said you seem to be searching for a fantasy israel-killing scenario.

There is much more chance of Syria attacking Israel first. They will give Israel casus belli and this will hurt there chances of support from anyone accept Iran.

 

[major liability]

I often find myself wondering why they didn't just form Israel in a part of the world where they wouldn't be completely surrounded by people who hate their very existence. Sure would be a nicer world right now. Certainly less stressful for the average Israeli, then they wouldn't need those chemical biological shelters in their homes and a constant sense of paranoia.

 

[A Can of Man]

Same thing I'm thinking but what's done is done and Israel is in its current position. Wouldn't it be nicer if they got a slice of Canada?
UnitedSomalia does seem to be looking for an Israel killing solution.
Truth is on paper at least, the Arabs should have trounced Israel several times over but this has never materialized, and this is even before American support. The US was actually not an ardent supporter of Israel at first. Israel's first true foreign ally was in fact France, not the United States... something that many people ignore.
Now if the Arabs got their butts handed to them by an Israel which was armed with mainly surplus equipment (as I think was the case in the first Arab-Israeli war... the one that kicked off on the day Israel declared itself an independent state) what chance have they got against an Israel with top of the line equipment and training?
Israel is not going to charge into its neighbors to seize any more land than its got now. It's not in Israel's best interest. This whole Arab screaming for WMDs is precisely the reason why the world is so afraid of the idea of Iran being an owner of them and the reason why we're all at unease at the fact that Pakistan has at least one. You guys sometimes make Kim Jong-il look emotionally stable.
UnitedSomalia, they can pull the plug on oil and they will lose all their money. The OPEC countries have to strike a balance between making oil's price high, yet reliable to maintain. They know that if pressure is strong enough and a true alternate energy source is found and employed, they are screwed. The Saudi royal family depend on oil not only to maintain their way of life but also to pay off various Islamic groups and charities to appease them and stay in power. If they fail to sell the oil, the odds are they will start turning into air pollution when the money dries up.

 

[rock45]

google it

General Shazli who planned and commanded the Egyptian forces in 1973 war stated that many of the Israeli soldiers captured on the Egyptian and Syrian front were with great certainty not Israelis, he said many of them when questioned by commanders stated that they were American soldiers.

Great certainty not a sure thing? Wouldn't names of the Americans be known and shared with the press? Your source is bad but you don't see it you just want to see and believe what you'll been told. Your not allowed to question and think differently. Just the fact that you would be believe this general who basically move out from under the coverage of his SAMs who through away his heavy tank units as the truth shows your true colors.
Then he let a smaller force cut through his flanks and drive deep into his own country. He threw away his early gains and with poor leadership threw away the battle and then the war. And you think his memoirs are going to show that? How your taught and what your let to believe happened will never show how good the Israeli did. Don't you think its odd that if the Egyptian forces did so well why they lost? Do you really think American forces in some magical way came in and help the Israeli kick ass? No the Israeli's know fight beat all of you together and at the same time. The attackers lack of heart, lack of training, lack of leadership when it counted most, lack of skill lost the war, like most lost wars there are reasons. This war has been covered fifty times over you could isolate which general and which force even failed, or did well. Its your closed mind that chose not to believe what others are throwing out there.

If you want to find out all you have to do is google it, type Americans serving with Israel or type General Shazli and read up on his memoirs.

No I'm not you made the statement and you have to back it up. I asked for proof and so far you haven't provided one link to anything.

If you do provide a link myself or anybody in the forum can challenge the source as well. General Shazli memoirs if supported by Cairo's college or other history sites then your making a case. Prove us wrong but some generals private memoirs mean nothing.

Let me ask you if this your the first forum you been in?

 

[major liability]

So do you think Israel won because it was stunningly good or because the Arabs were unbelievably terrible?

 

[A Can of Man]

Probably a combination of both.
Truth is, Jews have come from so many different nationalities and settled into Israel that you could have mistaken Israeli units for being riddled with mercenaries from America, Russia, Germany, etc. I guess by the 1970s the differences might have been less obvious. I don't know, only our Israeli member can answer that one.
Hell with that sort of line of thinking if I was ever captured by North Koreans I'd be tortured for being an American advisor wearing a South Korean uniform as a disguise!

 

[Del Boy]

You fill this thread with tales of how all Moslem countries in the area and beyond will leap to attack Israel as necessary, and how impressive their might is, but you cannot accept allies of Israel, and you denigrate America as above.

You insist on how small Israel is compared with with your Arab giant states. Precisely - think about it. Israel has been shaved now to a mere sliver of their original country, and they ask nothing more than a real peace; most of their Moslem neighbours demand the annihilation of this tiny state, and lambast the Israelis for defending themselves unrelentingly.
The Arab states, as you have indicated have space and land to spare, but still they present themselves as the victims of an Israel which wishes to attack and own them. Israel has quite enough of them already and there is nothing it wants less.

 

[rock45]

Both

I think both overall.

Moving out from under the SAM protection was the first big break the Israeli's got.

American supplied devices help a great deal with the SAM-3, another big factor but the poor choice of advancing without the SAM coverage was made already. So I think the bulk of the attacking forces or at very least the most forward units would have been lost to air attacks no matter what.

Anti-tank weapons used early on were effective and took a great toll on Israel's tanks but adjustments were made.

Realizing the error of no SAM coverage and letting a way into an open area is leadership letdown. The heavy units should have never been allowed to advance without SAM protection or more air cover. Egypt's advancing heavy units made up of their tanks formations were thrown away at this point.

It strange but it's almost like there was no plan to go any further or even to get as far as they did. Moving forward without air protection from Israeli's AF which they had to know was coming was leadership fault. I'm sure a lot of brave soldiers in those tanks knew what would happen advancing without protection

Egypt's air force was just about useless which would have made all the different even if it were 30% useful. Lack of focus and purpose it seem let them play any useful part. Even knowing the general roads the Israeli's would have sent the first reserve forces on would have help and hit those.

On both fronts only world pressure stop the Israeli's from going further.

 

[blackeagle]

it is true that america and britain involved in 1967,wherein most of american soldiers and military equipments were fighting inside esrael territory ,therefore they were defending esrael's sky to avoid falling in the hands of arabs.eventhough there are allot of american and british planes that were shot down by air defence sites.

with regard to syrian - iranian defence impact,in fact no one than arab countries who are suspicious from this impact regarding to iranian serious threat to arabs.therefore syria begins to feel embarrased from her relationship with iran ,especially after peace negitiations between esrael and syria,whereby esrael proclaimed her willingness to back golan heights to syria.therefore syria will not have any pretext or excuse to maintain on her relation with iran.

in fact i was shocked when i heared al assad's speach which included that 2009 year will be the year of separation between iran and syria.

 

[A Can of Man]

American and British pilots? you're joking, right?
Or is this what most people in the Middle East believe? Then again they think the CIA or Mossad did 9/11 so...

 

[blackeagle]

it is the truth my friend.
arabs got these facts from western's media,so they are not ours as you know.
if you wish to take sure of who did 11/9 events,go to newyork city especially to the victims' parents who they will tell you who are the real terrorists.
a hedious truth:evil:

 

[A Can of Man]

Because the western media is always right?

 

[Del Boy]

it is the truth my friend.
arabs got these facts from western's media,so they are not ours as you know.
if you wish to take sure of who did 11/9 events,go to newyork city especially to the victims' parents who they will tell you who are the real terrorists.
a hedious truth:evil:

May I politely invite you to stop spewing such errant nonsense. Please do not attempt to insult our intelligence. Whatever your sources they wouldn't recognise the truth if it jumped up and bit them on the .....neck. This is not the place for dishing out the rubbish imposed on Arab kids.

 

[A Can of Man]

Posts like these make me really wonder if those who are truly against us are really the "minority."

 

[DTop]

it is the truth my friend.
arabs got these facts from western's media,so they are not ours as you know.
if you wish to take sure of who did 11/9 events,go to newyork city especially to the victims' parents who they will tell you who are the real terrorists.
a hedious truth:evil:

Mod Warning: If you're going to make this sort of off the wall statement and claim that it's factual, then you need to post sources (links) to back them up.

 

[LeMask]

13TH redneck, you have to be aware that there is levels in "against us"...

Here is how I see things... A minority is "with you"... But the majority is "against you"... But the majority itself is cut between many groups, let me give some possible positions:
those who think that they have to oppose you.
those who dont trust you but dont feel concerned.
those who will ignore the problem as they cant do anything to change it.
those who think that you are wrong, but that they can make things better by supporting you.
Etc etc...

And finally, those who are against you and are ready to fight...

About the 9/11 attacks... All we know for sure is that some civilian airplanes were hijacked and that no one stopped them from hitting buildings in the US.

The official version is simple... But official versions arent trustworthy. We are aware that there is a controversy about it. But I know for sure that everything is possible in this world.

Now, if I had to choose a version, I would take the official version. Because the idea of a group inside the governments/industry making terror attacks is really frightening...

And the question is why you dont take these theories seriously? It's like faith. Someone told you that doubting your government is doubting your country, yourself, your values... And that the people who do that are your enemies and that they do that because they hate you.

But you have to admit that there is a lot of shadows in this story... Why they didnt stop the planes? did The terrorists sent an army of strippers to the NORAD to make a diversion? Why they were hiding the pictures of the plane hitting the Pentagon? So the commies dont zoom on the paper work flying from the explosion?

anyway, just try any website about conspiracy theories and you will have plenty of questions.

My question here is simple. What was your attitude toward these theories from the beginning. You went there with a free mind, or was it with a mind full of prejudice?
You have to be a free thinker... Forget anything capable of troubling your judgement...

You sure love your country. But dont let that take control of your mind. If you really care about your country, you will take every option seriously...

If you are a soldier... I think that they made you take an oath. And that this oath is very old.

I found this one... Marines oath as I can see, but I'm sure it's not that different in the army... the spirit is the same, kick ass for mother land...

I DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT I WILL SUPPORT AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES AGAINST ALL ENEMIES, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC; THAT I WILL BEAR TRUE FAITH AND ALLEGIANCE TO THE SAME AND THAT I WILL OBEY THE ORDERS OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE ORDERS OF THE OFFICERS APPOINTED OVER ME, ACCORDING TO THE REGULATIONS AND THE UNIFORM CODE OF MILITARY JUSTICE. SO HELP ME GOD.

I love that oath... I wish I was a Marine just to make such oath. Defend the constitution of the USA. You see what is the meaning of this phrase? they wont defend the US, but its constitution. It means that they will defend the country only if the country follows the constitution.

And the most interesting point is the following:
Against its enemies, foreign or DOMESTIC... Eh, Redneck, do you really think that the people who wrote this oath were unpatriotic?

 

[A Can of Man]

LeMask, I meant it in a pretty loose term.
As in, they believe we are behind every bad thing in the world (AIDS, 9/11, 3/11, Munich...) and that our destruction will bring the earth to a level that rivals heaven.

"About the 9/11 attacks... All we know for sure is that some civilian airplanes were hijacked and that no one stopped them from hitting buildings in the US."
Yes and I'm sure the Germans showed up in Paris upon invitation. La resistance? Complete works of fiction cooked up towards the end of the war.
Can you prove me wrong if I state something like that?
We know what I just said is false, but what if I insisted it was the truth?

Conspiracy theories only make sense to those people who don't know about the subject. Only a few conspiracies ever make any sense and 9/11 being the work of the CIA or Mossad is not one of those.

"Against its enemies, foreign or DOMESTIC... Eh, Redneck, do you really think that the people who wrote this oath were unpatriotic?"
I believe the last part is about not giving traitors at home a break.
I'm letting you off on this one because English is not your first language so you may have misunderstood.

 

[LeMask]

I dont know man. I wish I could agree with you. But my mind tells me that these theories might be true.

Of course, there is people who believe in conspiracy theories involving aliens and martiens with big heads controling the world Etc...

But hell, I dont have to grade their copy right now. Everything is possible...

And yes, English isnt my first language, you must notice it in every sentence from me... But what I meant, is that these people who wrote the oath knew that the enemy can come from the inside...

And you shouldnt say that its impossible...