How the Iran-Syria defense pact may affect

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Dont forget that Israel is a democracy in the Middle East... The only one in fact. So every other democracy in the world would intervene to help Israel if there was problems in the areas.

We cant let Israel fall to Syria or any other country in the area... Not in a million years.

But we would support Israel to make peace with it's neighboring countries.
 
What event in history? LMAO!!!!!!!!! Please tell me you didn't mean to say that. Remember 1973 war when Israel lost 100 fighters at the onset of the war which basically meant Israel lost 30% of their air fleet and if the war continued at that rate without the American airlift Israeli air force would have been knocked out of the war. Also Israel lost so much of their armor to Egyprian and Syrian ATGM teams. America is like Israel's big brother that is on steroids and has roid rages, everytime Israel is in a jam militarily or politically it bails them out. Israel wouldn't have waged many of the wars after the 1956 war if it wasn't due to American backing them up, cuz at that time France pretty much stopped supplying Israel. Even as recent as the Hezbollah-Israel conflict, when Israel depleted their smart bombs and cluster bombs, America sent shipments.

So if ever Israel and Syria have a war and the IRGC creates problems for Israel in terms of doing serious damage to Israeli ground units, its highly likely America will get involved. Or if Israel was ever in a positon of dire situation and were overwhelmed and couldn't defend themselves their older brother on steroids America will fight for them.
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Ok, Ill ansawer that in two parts.
1) I never meant to say that the USA dose not support Israel miltary wise. What I did say, and htis is a fact, that the USA never intervened by force in the Israeli-Arab wars. So, If it hasent happend when Israel fought against 7 countires, I doubt it will if we fight only one. IRGC can perhaps slow down IDF advance, but they cant invade Israel and therefore they are not a major risk.

2) Now let me correct some of your errors...
A)Israel lost 102 aircrat in the entire war of 1973, not in the first days. The Americans sent 36 F-4 Phantom fighters, a welcomed, yet not complete replacement. It can hardly be seen as what save the IAF.
B)The IDF did loose a large noumber of tanks but the ammont sent by airlift was almost negligeble(due to the huge weight of tanks).
C)The Arms embargo on Israel was after 1967, not 1956. In 1967 the majoruty of IDF arms were not American they were French or British.
Israel wged 1 offensive war since 1967, all the others were a result of Arab hostileties.
D)In 30 days of fighting in Lebanon Israel lost somewhere in the region of 5 to 15 tanks. Even if Israel looses 400 tanks it will still be able to manuver into damascus and destroy 90% of Syrian forces. What think the Suni majority will do to the opressive Alawi minority when that minority looses its military stregth?
 
"Ok, Ill ansawer that in two parts.
1) I never meant to say that the USA dose not support Israel miltary wise. What I did say, and htis is a fact, that the USA never intervened by force in the Israeli-Arab wars. So, If it hasent happend when Israel fought against 7 countires, I doubt it will if we fight only one. IRGC can perhaps slow down IDF advance, but they cant invade Israel and therefore they are not a major risk.

2) Now let me correct some of your errors...
A)Israel lost 102 aircrat in the entire war of 1973, not in the first days. The Americans sent 36 F-4 Phantom fighters, a welcomed, yet not complete replacement. It can hardly be seen as what save the IAF.
B)The IDF did loose a large noumber of tanks but the ammont sent by airlift was almost negligeble(due to the huge weight of tanks).
C)The Arms embargo on Israel was after 1967, not 1956. In 1967 the majoruty of IDF arms were not American they were French or British.
Israel wged 1 offensive war since 1967, all the others were a result of Arab hostileties.
D)In 30 days of fighting in Lebanon Israel lost somewhere in the region of 5 to 15 tanks. Even if Israel looses 400 tanks it will still be able to manuver into damascus and destroy 90% of Syrian forces. What think the Suni majority will do to the opressive Alawi minority when that minority looses its military stregth?"

America may not have physically intervened in the Arab-Israeli wars, but their is no doubt that many American military men whether they were fighter pilots, tank crew men, or technicians got permission to go serve with the IDF in the various Arab-Israeli wars. The American military men volunteered to fight for Israel and that is a fact. If Iran send large amounts of IRGC troops to Syria under their defense pact, their is no way Israel will get anywhere near Damascus, even Egypt which currently has peace treaty with Israel stated that if Israel tries to invade Syria proper that it will have no choice but to defend and come to Syria's aid.

And in worst case scenario God forbid it comes to that, Iran and Syria have a plan under their defense pact that they will coordinate their missile, chemical and biological arsenal in order to maximize them to their full potential and launch them at Israel if Syria face such a dire situation. That is why Israel will never invade Damascus and try to take Syria proper, Israel's defense chiefs know that if they back Syria into a corner of dire situation that Syria in coordination with Iran will launch their WMDs at Israel. Look how strategic small Israel is, they won't be able to handle a full chemical and biological attack.

If Israel lost 102 aircraft the whole war as you claim, well their air force would have been depleted if the war continued longer with that rate of attrition. And everyone knows Israel will lose way more that 400 tanks if they actually tried to go all the way to Damascus, all Iran has to commit to Syria is 10,000 IRGC and Israel will have a nightmare on its hands in the ground. Imagine how much worse Iraq would be right now if Iran actually committed 10-20 thousand IRGC to wreck havoc, and this is one of America's fears.
 
I don't think using chemical and biological weapons against Israel is a very good idea. They have NUCLEAR weapons of mass destruction, you don't even get to pray before it gets you, unless you're in the slow-and-painful zone.

I hope there isn't another war there. There'd be incredible destruction and suffering on both sides.
 
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SHERMAN said:
What event in history causes you to think that will happen?
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Just out of interest (because it could turn nasty) do you think the USA would bail Israel out if needed?

I am talking boots on the ground, more than material support.

major liability said:
I don't think using chemical and biological weapons against Israel is a very good idea. They have NUCLEAR weapons of mass destruction, you don't even get to pray before it gets you, unless you're in the slow-and-painful zone.

I hope there isn't another war there. There'd be incredible destruction and suffering on both sides.
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I agree but realistically a limited WMD war can only be won by the Arab nations (in terms of the destruction of Israel), if it was to expand to third parties then no one would win.
 
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fact

UnitedSomalia
America may not have physically intervened in the Arab-Israeli wars, but their is no doubt that many American military men whether they were fighter pilots, tank crew men, or technicians got permission to go serve with the IDF in the various Arab-Israeli wars. The American military men volunteered to fight for Israel and that is a fact.
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Can you provide any proof what so ever that this happen! This is a incorrect statement and did not happen.
many American military men
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This statement is completely wrong it would be illegal for US military personnel to leave active duty and fight for any country Israel or not.

Iran helping Syria and sending in the mighty IRGC isn't worth much of a response. Do you really think Israel if they were fighting in Syria would hold back the way there forced to now!
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America may not have physically intervened in the Arab-Israeli wars, but their is no doubt that many American military men whether they were fighter pilots, tank crew men, or technicians got permission to go serve with the IDF in the various Arab-Israeli wars. The American military men volunteered to fight for Israel and that is a fact.
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Ok, Ill take that as it is...How many? All togather? Over 60 years? 1000?10000? I doubt if it is half the first noumber. You are looking for things that dont exist.

If Iran send large amounts of IRGC troops to Syria under their defense pact, their is no way Israel will get anywhere near Damascus, even Egypt which currently has peace treaty with Israel stated that if Israel tries to invade Syria proper that it will have no choice but to defend and come to Syria's aid.
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A)I dont think you see the scope of an Israeli-Syrian war right:) There are houndreds of thousends of men and thousends of tanks on each sides. 10000 IRGC? OK, its trouble...But its not the biggest issue.
B)You really think Egypt will support Syria risking it's relations with USA and figthing Israel to which it has lost 4 wars? How stupid do you think the Egyptian leadrs are?

And in worst case scenario God forbid it comes to that, Iran and Syria have a plan under their defense pact that they will coordinate their missile, chemical and biological arsenal in order to maximize them to their full potential and launch them at Israel if Syria face such a dire situation. That is why Israel will never invade Damascus and try to take Syria proper, Israel's defense chiefs know that if they back Syria into a corner of dire situation that Syria in coordination with Iran will launch their WMDs at Israel. Look how strategic small Israel is, they won't be able to handle a full chemical and biological attack.
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Well, A WMD attack would be a very devestating move indeed, but isent it you that convinced us the Iranians wont do such a thing? If they do they will face a major reprisal by Israel, including Nuclear, Biological and Chimical attacks. This is also one of the few cases where the USA might actually send forces to help Israel, or even launch a nuclear strike on Iran and Syria.

If Israel lost 102 aircraft the whole war as you claim, well their air force would have been depleted if the war continued longer with that rate of attrition. And everyone knows Israel will lose way more that 400 tanks if they actually tried to go all the way to Damascus, all Iran has to commit to Syria is 10,000 IRGC and Israel will have a nightmare on its hands in the ground. Imagine how much worse Iraq would be right now if Iran actually committed 10-20 thousand IRGC to wreck havoc, and this is one of America's fears.
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Iwm not "claming". Google it. The war lasted almost 4 weeks, and nearly all casualties were on the first week. If the war lasted another month Damascus and Cairo would have fallen. The IDF was 100KM from Cairo and 40 KM from Damascus. Both the Egyptian and Syrian army were devestated, the later was trapped on the wrong side of the Suez cannal. Israel will not conqoure Syria like the USA in Iraq. The only thing Israel would do if need be is to invade Syria and destroy it's military. We dont do the whole "bring democracy over" thing, we just make sure you cant screw us over. The IDF will crash in, leaving pockets of resistance behind it. It will destroy 90% of the Syrian army and withdraw a few weeks later. The tank losses would probably be around 200-300, with most of those repairable.
 
Israel isn't the only country to get F-4 phantoms for free. South Korea got quite a few that way as well. That was way before when Korea didn't have much of a lobby in the US.
 
In a limited exchange of WMDs between Israel and Syria-Iran, we all know the outcome, Iran is like 100 times the land size of Israel and a population that dwarfs Israel, Syria is also a lot large than Israel, Israel is the one that is at a disadvantage in a WMD exchange. God forbid such a situation arises and I hope to God it never does. Syria and Iran don't even need nukes, their chemical and biological weapons is enough to destroy Israel, Israel's very small land size and densely packed population centers are strategically vulnerable to chemical and bio attack. This is something the Israeli defense chiefs know, that is why Syria and Israel may have a war, but it will never escalate because regardless of their nuke capability. Israel knows it cannot survive a WMD exchange with Syria and Iran, so they will never try to take Damascus and back Syria into a corner in which its only alternative would be to use its chemical and bio weapons. I think 10,000 IRGC troops working alongside Syrian army and commandos would be enough to safeguard Syria and Damascus without Syria having to resort to WMD.

Also 10,000 IRGC with their advanced anti-tank missiles and portable shoulder launched SAMs to use during engagements for limited air cover working alongside the Syrian army and commandos, can wreck havoc on Israeli flank, rear, and reinforcements. 10,000 highly trained and motivated IRGC can do pretty bad damage to Israeli forces whether you believe it or not, and the 10,000 figure I am using is some number I just picked of the top of my head and its on the conservative side, Iran will probably send triple that amount.
 
"United Somalia, if there's a place to post about your wet dreams, this isn't one of them."-Redneck

These are not my wet dreams, these WMD scenarios could possibly happen if Syria and Iran are backed into a corner, and I am merely discussing the Syria-Iran defense pact which includes the use of WMDs as last resort to avert invasion or regime change. You can say what ever you like Redneck, their is nothing wrong with me speaking about all possibilities in a Syria-Israel war including WMD and IRGC involvement. In such a war even the Israeli government knows that Iran will send IRGC to Syria.

"B)You really think Egypt will support Syria risking it's relations with USA and figthing Israel to which it has lost 4 wars? How stupid do you think the Egyptian leadrs are?"

Hosni Mubarak and the Egyptian defense minister stated that they will come to Syria's aid on the eve of the American invasion of Iraq because everyone thought that Israel will open war with Syria while everyone's attention was concentrated at Iraq. Google it and look it up, Egypt's peace with Israel was do the understanding the Israel will not invade anymore Arab countries and Egypt won't sit idly by while its long and traditional ally Syria is attacked, and Damascus threatened
 
Which is a good reason why these guys should never be given WMDs. You know these guys just might be crazy enough to use them while knowing the full potential of these weapons and the consequences of using them.
Israel is not interested in grabbing all the territories around it. Most of the territorial acquisitions have occured to gain strategic ground to aid the defense of Israel. And even then much land has been ceded.
I really don't see the whole argument behind the Israelis trying to take over its Arab neighbors.
 
"Which is a good reason why these guys should never be given WMDs. You know these guys just might be crazy enough to use them while knowing the full potential of these weapons and the consequences of using them.
Israel is not interested in grabbing all the territories around it. Most of the territorial acquisitions have occured to gain strategic ground to aid the defense of Israel. And even then much land has been ceded.
I really don't see the whole argument behind the Israelis trying to take over its Arab neighbors."-Redneck

Every country needs the means to defend themselves, if Israel has them and every other countries can get WMDs and nukes why deny them to Muslim countries. How are you going say they may use WMDs, if you don't want them to use it don't invade them, regime change and occupy their countries its simple. To me they seem reasonable and reliable, they haven't used their WMDS. If someone invades America and America is in danger of being overrun, you don't think America will use it WMDs to defend themselves? They will use it. If Israel was ever threatened with being overrun you don't think they would use their WMDs to defend themselves? They will use it. So how do you expect Muslim countries and in this case Iran and Syria to not use their WMDs to defend their countries from being overrun, to me it seems hypocritical. Nations build WMDs in order have them for last case dire situations, don't try to invade them and you won't have to worry about them using it, its human nature for one to react and defend themselves by any means possible when backed into a corner.
 
In a limited exchange of WMDs between Israel and Syria-Iran, we all know the outcome, Iran is like 100 times the land size of Israel and a population that dwarfs Israel, Syria is also a lot large than Israel, Israel is the one that is at a disadvantage in a WMD exchange. God forbid such a situation arises and I hope to God it never does. Syria and Iran don't even need nukes, their chemical and biological weapons is enough to destroy Israel, Israel's very small land size and densely packed population centers are strategically vulnerable to chemical and bio attack. This is something the Israeli defense chiefs know, that is why Syria and Israel may have a war, but it will never escalate because regardless of their nuke capability. Israel knows it cannot survive a WMD exchange with Syria and Iran, so they will never try to take Damascus and back Syria into a corner in which its only alternative would be to use its chemical and bio weapons. I think 10,000 IRGC troops working alongside Syrian army and commandos would be enough to safeguard Syria and Damascus without Syria having to resort to WMD.
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That is not the point there will be no winners to Arab ue of WD, because 400 nuclear weapons would hit every large and meidum city in Syria and Iran. On the other hand Israel has probably the only civilian population in the world that has a bomb shelter and Chimical/Biological protection in each home. Israel also has an operational balistic missile shield, and can hit every launch vehicle in Syria in a matter of minutes. So, I wouldent bank on a WMD launch to save the day.

Also 10,000 IRGC with their advanced anti-tank missiles and portable shoulder launched SAMs to use during engagements for limited air cover working alongside the Syrian army and commandos, can wreck havoc on Israeli flank, rear, and reinforcements. 10,000 highly trained and motivated IRGC can do pretty bad damage to Israeli forces whether you believe it or not, and the 10,000 figure I am using is some number I just picked of the top of my head and its on the conservative side, Iran will probably send triple that amount.
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Weather I believe it or not? OK, go talk to your self you will reach great insights. In the meantime, understand that Israel is used to fighting against noumbers. The IRGC maybe well trained, but so is the Syrian commando. And guess what, the Syrian commando which supposed to be "Highly trained" is trained to about the extent of Israeli rgular infentry. The IRGC has no outstanding arms, tactics, or training. Its all very much like what israel is already facing, just more of it.

Hosni Mubarak and the Egyptian defense minister stated that they will come to Syria's aid on the eve of the American invasion of Iraq because everyone thought that Israel will open war with Syria while everyone's attention was concentrated at Iraq. Google it and look it up, Egypt's peace with Israel was do the understanding the Israel will not invade anymore Arab countries and Egypt won't sit idly by while its long and traditional ally Syria is attacked, and Damascus threatened
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Hosni Mubarak says alot of things to calm down the Egyptian public and not get ousted. Last time I checked in 1982 and 2006 when israel invaded Lebanon the Egyptians were not coming across the canal. To add to that he hates the Iranians because they are friends with his own nut-job funamentals.

Look I undrstand you want to think that the Arab world can win a conventional war with Israel, but its simply against all evidence.
 
Basically what Sherman said.
Dictators of Muslim countries often do give such speeches to calm down the public during times of anger even if they have little or no intent to carry out whatever they claim they will.
And yes, I believe that if Iran and Syria did launch some sort of NBC warfare against Israel heaven will have a severe virgin shortage. As for how the Israeli populace will do against a chemical or biological attack... that I think enters the world of OPSEC.
Let me put this WMD thing into perspective. I feel safer with the Chinese having them than any of these theocratic extremist Muslim groups or countries and if you've been keeping up, you'll know that I am by no means a big fan of them.
 
extremist Muslim

I'm still waiting for that proof that Americans forces fought in all the Israeli wars.

You put the statement out there now back it up!
 
Possibly some guy with dual citizenship who's serving in the Israeli military. But that hardly constitutes as American troops fighting for Israel.
 
We all know that the US supports Israel. But how much? It's hard to tell.

There is many ways to help a country. Intelligence, finances, access to advanced equipement, research, politics Etc...

In the US there is many people, Jewish or not who are ready for anything to help the Jewish state. There is Zionists all over the world who support Israel. They are extremely active and influential...

Just here in France, there is many groups to support Israel. Some of them are pretty neat. Some have a bad reputation... Others are definetely criminal like the "Bettar" (spelling) who is a group of young men who train to fight and beat up anyone not supporting Israel... Sometimes you meet a guy in the street who asks for your opinion about an Israeli intervention, and if he doesnt like the answer, you are called a Nazi and a group of his friends appears to beat you...

Just to tell you how much support they have in other countries...

We will never get an answer to such questions.

Remember world war II and all the US pilots who went to the UK to help out?

it's not very very visible... French African colonies sent troops to fight in WWII, such huge organized troop deployments leaves a lot of traces. But if a Jewish man leaves the US to go to Israel and fight... It wont leave that much to remember. All you can see is that the US did nothing to prevent that.

Good enough if you want my opinion.
 
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Like I said, if a dual citizen of the US and Israel wishes to serve in Israel's military, that's his deal and it isn't a US backing of Israel. The United States has no obligation to prevent this. Americans with a dual citizenship routinely serve in countries other than the United States.
The US does back Israel amongst many other countries. The Jews have a very strong lobby in the US, but so do a lot of other groups of people. The Jews are simply ahead in the game. So Jews want Israel to exist, is that shocking? I hardly think so.
Yes, I am sure there are many Jewish groups who are not good. However, if the worst they do is beat up people or call people Nazis when they don't give the answer they want, they're hardly close to the top of bad groups.
 
I just wanted to show how there is people eager to support Israel in the world.

And I dont think that we should wait until they start killing people... You know about freedom of expression. I deny it to Nazis/racists... but they head for an university and start asking random questions to find their "enemies"... I call that looking for trouble.

Anyway... I wonder if the topic is enough to see us focus on Israel that much... We are talking about Israel in so many threads...
 
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