House passes HR 2956 (223-201) Redeployment from Iraq Act
Infern0
Banned
phoenix80
Banned
Not a problem! :wink:
Gator
U of B and B Alumnus
Sure I do! :jump: a pro-Bush/pro-america Iranian in exile...
Just removed you from ignore list... back to ignore list now!
Well, people leave Iran all the time, word is they go to Iraq to fight the United States Military in many cases.
You try and tell Americans what Americans should be doing when it pertains to the United States of America, you try to tell Americans what to think when it comes to American Issues, and you are in my opinion, a Right Wing Extremist, so, you are in my opinion Anti-American, not "Pro-American".
You, in my opinion, view Freedom as what you would extend to people to do exactly what you want them to do, and to think the very same way you think.
phoenix80
Banned
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Gator
U of B and B Alumnus
Yes, dude! I am a neo-con... :jumproud of it! :-D
Bush rocks! ;-)
Iran proper has Neo-Cons in charge of the Governemnt of Iran right now correct? And President Bush did order the United States Military take out the long standing enemy of Iran (Saddam) did he not?
Iran proper is in the opinion of many (myself included) in a better position because of the US the war in Iraq right now, because of President Bush, so yes, I can see your point.
phoenix80
Banned
whatever dude...
America that President Bush truthfully represents is the true friend of oppressed people of the world and leftists, eurowhinnies and democrats are the enemy of freedom and have always been the loyal friends of dictators.
I'm glad Saddam's gone to hell and I'm glad Bush is the leader of the free world.
Moreover, you gotta play another card. Cuz what you doing now has no difference what what many law experts call "SLANDER"
Back up your accusations or sod off plz!
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Gator
U of B and B Alumnus
So, you are going to sue me?
Well, if so, I look forward to seeing you in International Court, unless of course you are going to sue me in a U.S. Court, then I look forward to seeing you in a U.S. Court, are you going to tell the DoJ that you are a Bush Supporter and are therefore entitled?
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phoenix80
Banned
Infern0
Banned
SLANDER–noun 1.defamation; calumny: rumors full of slander. 2.a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report: a slander against his good name. 3.Law. defamation by oral utterance rather than by writing, pictures, etc. –verb (used with object) 4.to utter slander against; defame. –verb (used without object) 5.to utter or circulate slander.
i fail to see where he has slandered you, or anyone else. you admit that you are a right winger. and everyone accepts that iran has a radical right wing govt. wheres the problem?
i extend the same statement to you sir
shouldn't you be debating like someone with a modicum of intelligence, or are you just going to resort to childish name calling?
if you cant back up your position with reasoning, well....doesn't leave much does it?
personally i'm interested to see what you definition of "freedom" actually is....but at the same time i dread your answer
*sigh* anyway, i think the best response to P80's for of "debate" is this:
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phoenix80
Banned
I really think my time is too valueable to be wasted in debating with people who have no clue and have no interest or IQ to learn new stuff. They just say things against people out of their blind hatred.
My definition of freedom (philosophically):
It is the right or the capacity and ability, of self-determination as an expression of the individual or collective will.
Infern0
Banned
i'm confused, i would say you exhibit most of the above traits
methinks that's someone else's definition there champ lol
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
phoenix80
Banned
This can be an eye opener for those who want to wave the white flag in Iraq and withdraw
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Evil regime of Iran wants the US to cut and run. One wonders why Leftists and Mullahs of Iran share the same opinion
http://www2.irna.ir/en/news/view/menu-236/0707139427155759.htm
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Evil regime of Iran wants the US to cut and run. One wonders why Leftists and Mullahs of Iran share the same opinion
http://www2.irna.ir/en/news/view/menu-236/0707139427155759.htm
Chief Bones
Forums Grumpy Old Man
What do you do when the flame goes out?
I am really dreading the possibility that we will soon be witnessing another Vietnam ... the problem though, isn't the US Military (or) even the US Government, the problem is the very real FACT that the Iraqi Government itself, hasn't even half way met their OWN benchmarks ... and ... it is apparent they won't be able to prior to the August report (even with the US troop surge).
So the question is: WHAT DO WE DO WHEN THE AUGUST REPORT DISCLOSES THE IRAQI GOVERNMENT HASN'T LIVED UP TO THEIR OWN AGREEMENTS WITH THE US GOVERNMENT?
Some of the think tank Gurus, believe it will require another ten years of US troop involvement in Iraq before the Iraqi Government can fend for itself ... this is something the American people won't stand for ... they would be rise up and call for the impeachment of the government from the President on down.
IF the Gurus are right, then the only reasonable answer seems to be:
US troop withdrawal and let the Iraqi Government fend for itself (even if it means they fall).
Another ten years of American troops being targets for every terrorist organisation in the region ain't gonna happen.
I am really dreading the possibility that we will soon be witnessing another Vietnam ... the problem though, isn't the US Military (or) even the US Government, the problem is the very real FACT that the Iraqi Government itself, hasn't even half way met their OWN benchmarks ... and ... it is apparent they won't be able to prior to the August report (even with the US troop surge).
So the question is: WHAT DO WE DO WHEN THE AUGUST REPORT DISCLOSES THE IRAQI GOVERNMENT HASN'T LIVED UP TO THEIR OWN AGREEMENTS WITH THE US GOVERNMENT?
Some of the think tank Gurus, believe it will require another ten years of US troop involvement in Iraq before the Iraqi Government can fend for itself ... this is something the American people won't stand for ... they would be rise up and call for the impeachment of the government from the President on down.
IF the Gurus are right, then the only reasonable answer seems to be:
US troop withdrawal and let the Iraqi Government fend for itself (even if it means they fall).
Another ten years of American troops being targets for every terrorist organisation in the region ain't gonna happen.
mmarsh
Active member
You missed what I said earlier. I said Iraq is lost politically, not militarily but that a military victory is impossible without a political one. This is not pseudo-science, the DOD as said exactly the same thing. Read Chief Bones post above, thats exactly how I feel.
The Iraqi Government Benchmarks are more important that the August military progress report, and the results were just awful. 8-18 issues resolved (and the NYT said yesterday that the 8 they got right was with a very generous grading curb). 8-18, and Bush calls this 'progress', to what?
Its evident to me that the only ones who want the Iraqi government to succeed is the US, the Iraqis themselves aren't interested. They either wish to be part of Iran, part of a new Kurdish State, or a pure Sunni one.
This British invention called "Iraq" is done. Where Bush keeping lying is that he insists that Iraq is a Front of the GWOT. It isn't. The Iraqis hate al-Qaeda (they are responsble for most of the civilian deaths) this is a NEOCON sideshow and we have no business being there.
We should let them sort this out themselves (for better or for worse), and we should stop this ridiculous idea of nation building.
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The Other Guy
Spam King
My belief is that the whole middle east will fly off the handle if we leave Iraq.
Imagine a cinder block. The cinder block is Iraq under Saddam Hussein. This cinder block is holding up an enourmous bomb and prevents it from going off. In removing saddam from power we have taken away this cinder block and replaced it with a pair of tweezers.
Saddam kept Iran in check. His presence held the Jenga-like structure of the middle east together. we took out all of his pieces and replaced them with the US Army. We can't keep holding this together much longer. And when we leave the whole region will collapse. We have managed to destabilize an entire region with our invasion. At this point I'm actually nervous as to what will happen when we leave.
The whole thing's going to blow up when we leave. Whether they'll follow us home or not is unknown (and I think unlikely) but the Middle East will not be a nice place to go when it happens.
Imagine a cinder block. The cinder block is Iraq under Saddam Hussein. This cinder block is holding up an enourmous bomb and prevents it from going off. In removing saddam from power we have taken away this cinder block and replaced it with a pair of tweezers.
Saddam kept Iran in check. His presence held the Jenga-like structure of the middle east together. we took out all of his pieces and replaced them with the US Army. We can't keep holding this together much longer. And when we leave the whole region will collapse. We have managed to destabilize an entire region with our invasion. At this point I'm actually nervous as to what will happen when we leave.
The whole thing's going to blow up when we leave. Whether they'll follow us home or not is unknown (and I think unlikely) but the Middle East will not be a nice place to go when it happens.
Gator
U of B and B Alumnus
The Prime Minister of Iraq said that the US Military can leave at "any time" and Iraq woud be fine......
So, makes one wonder what the US Military is still doing in Iraq.
Now, Hassan al-Suneid, a top Aid to the Prime Minister of Iraq seems to think that the US Mission in Iraq was a mere Lab experiment, and that United States Military Forces are breaking International Law by committing Human Rights Violations.
I believe Iraq will be a mess if the US pulls out, no matter if the US leaves in one year or five years from now.
So, I believe all of Iraqs Cities should be bombed and burnt to the ground. Iraq should be bombed back into the Stone Age, so none of the Iraqi People benefit from American Losses while trying to make Iraq a better place, yet having Iraqis actively resisting such change with force of arms.
It is true that many (if not most) of the Iraqis will die taking such a path, but it is my belief that better people will one day repopulate and rebuild the Area once controlled by the Iraqis.
And it will, in my opinion, be better for the long term Security of the United States of America, as we will have killed them over there, so we wouldn't have to kill them over here.... and the other nations in the Area who feel froggy may think twice before messing with the US.
I believe the same thing should have happened to Vietnam upon the US Military Ground Forces withdraw, furthermore, I believe that had all the Cities of North Vietnam been turned to dust and ash that the very Threat of US Withdraw in Iraq now would be taken more seriously, and perhaps avoided altogether by the Iraqis picking up the pace and playing nice with each other.
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