House Democrats Pass Healthcare Reform

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A Can of Man said:
When I pay taxes, all I ask in return is that it actually does something productive.


Reported.
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And yet the political party in power now does whatever it wants to with your tax money, and you get nothing but higher prices in return, and further and further in debt
 
Czin said:
Get rid of the income tax cap, that would increase the U.S's earnings by substantial amount. And those who make enough money to lose more than half of their earnings to the income tax are most likely already obscenely rich and earn far more money than they spend.
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Chukpike said:
No they are not giving the states the responsibility. The Health Bill tells the states what they will pay. The state governments were not represented in the Federal government passed Health Care bill.

Ever heard the term "No Taxation without representation" ?

"NOBODY realizes how important the federal government is to this country."

But everyone realizes how self important the Federal politicians think they are.
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Rob Henderson said:
You're right, the states' government didn't have any representation, but that's because this is a government OF THE PEOPLE. Not OF THE GOVERNMENT of the people. There's a reason we elect our representatives directly, instead of having them be chosen by others at the state level. It's AMAZING how selective your reading can be when you put your mind to it, Chukpike.



Insurance has been regulated by the states from state to state. But not BETWEEN states. That's not allowed. Because we tried stuff like that once. We ended up with the Articles of Confederation, which basically made each state their own little country. It didn't turn out well, by the way.

I am just assuming, but since I pay taxes, I think I have some say in how everyone is taxed. But as far as the "lower upper class" is concerned, I dare say they've fared these economic hardships better than most.
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CZin: Most Tax is from a very small number of taxpayers, & the rest of the comment isn't really relevant.
Chuk: The Senators original represented the States, the House represented the people. Part of the triangulation of power. Now Senators are elected directly, contributing to mob rule aka democracy instead of being a Representative Republic.
Rob: articles of Confederation sat up too weak a Fed. Govt., but we've swung too far. A Govt that can give you anything can take it away. And look how spending & deficits have exploded when we started punishing the achievers & rewarding the slackers.
 
George said:
Rob: articles of Confederation sat up too weak a Fed. Govt., but we've swung too far. A Govt that can give you anything can take it away. And look how spending & deficits have exploded when we started punishing the achievers & rewarding the slackers.
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And that would be the fundamental difference between liberals and conservatives. Liberals are more likely to be compassionate towards strangers, whereas conservatives are more likely to only care about people they know and relate to. Not meant to be an insult or anything, just a fact. . .
 
Doom and gloom .. tactic of fear and hate .....

I love it ..... I love it ..... I love it .....

Doom and gloom, doom and gloom ..........

That's all you see coming from Tea Partyers, Republicans and "Pro-Insurance Company advocates". Not one of those complaining about the Health-Care Reform Bill, bother to even acknowledge the fact that overhaul was necessary .. or .. that parts of this bill, were included in the bill because Republican politicians pushed the Democrats to include changes or modifications to the bill. What is so ironic to me, is the fact that not even one Republican voted for the bill even though parts of the bill were sponsored by Republicans.

To top it off, certain groups are now using the tactic of fear and hate, and are threatening politicians who supported the bill (and even their families). Uttering these threats should draw those who do so, the maximum sentence allowed under law.

THE BOOK OUGHT TO BE THROWN AT THEM.
 
Chief Bones said:
I love it ..... I love it ..... I love it .....

Doom and gloom, doom and gloom ..........

That's all you see coming from Tea Partyers, Republicans and "Pro-Insurance Company advocates". Not one of those complaining about the Health-Care Reform Bill, bother to even acknowledge the fact that overhaul was necessary .. or .. that parts of this bill, were included in the bill because Republican politicians pushed the Democrats to include changes or modifications to the bill. What is so ironic to me, is the fact that not even one Republican voted for the bill even though parts of the bill were sponsored by Republicans.

To top it off, certain groups are now using the tactic of fear and hate, and are threatening politicians who supported the bill (and even their families). Uttering these threats should draw those who do so, the maximum sentence allowed under law.

THE BOOK OUGHT TO BE THROWN AT THEM.
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The Republicans can up with around 10 Free Market orientated reforms that were rejected out of hand. Free Market reforms don't accomplish what the Dems wanted, more Govt control, power & dependancy. Where in the Constitution does the Govt get power to confinscate money from 1 to subsidize another? Where doers it say they have the power to force people to buy something? Compasion is the voluntary sending of aid to Haiti & Chile, not money confinscated @ gun point by the Govt. How do we know the "incidents of violence" wen't done by Democrats stirring up trouble to distract the voters.
 
You realize that no sane individual really believes in a totally free market right? Unless you enjoy having economic melt downs and depressions every three to five years.
And so far how has the American healthcare system been run? Largely by the free market. Unfortunately, that hasn't gone very well at all and there are examples of many countries the world over with government supported health care systems that work very well without bankrupting the entire country.
 
A Can of Man said:
You realize that no sane individual really believes in a totally free market right? Unless you enjoy having economic melt downs and depressions every three to five years.
And so far how has the American healthcare system been run? Largely by the free market. Unfortunately, that hasn't gone very well at all and there are examples of many countries the world over with government supported health care systems that work very well without bankrupting the entire country.
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There's a big diffrence between Free Market & Laze Fair. The states have long lists of "must cover" items that, regardless of how unlikely, must be covered driving up costs. Just opening up cross State line buying & choice on the basic plan would help.
 
mmarsh said:
And in case anyone was really wondering why we passed HCR heres a reminder, some of you "pro-lifers" might want to take notice...

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/03/26/91120/texas-newborn-denied-health-insurance.html
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And a reminder for "pro-choice" advocates why it should not have passed.

"Obama signs order affirming ban on federal funds for abortions"
http://www.latimes.com/features/heal...,5808676.story

No Health Care funds for abortions. Yeah the Democrats passed a Health Care bill increasing taxes, but denying medical coverage to women.
 
people who work their butts off to get the money they have shouldnt be punished for it, and that money shouldnt be given to people who made alot of poor choices in life, like not graduating high school, or not going to some sort of higher education, welfare is a good thing for a limited amount of time. Also the rich people vs average people bull crap only divides us more, in a society there will always be the wealthy and the poor, get over it.
 
Poor choices in life???????

Bacara said:
people who work their butts off to get the money they have shouldnt be punished for it, and that money shouldnt be given to people who made alot of poor choices in life, like not graduating high school, or not going to some sort of higher education, welfare is a good thing for a limited amount of time. Also the rich people vs average people bull crap only divides us more, in a society there will always be the wealthy and the poor, get over it.
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BACARA - ...........
a lot of poor choices in life???
like not graduating high school >> not everyone has the possibility of attending a grade school that teaches the 3Rs in a manner that the student learns.

not going to some sort of higher education >> not all students have a chance to get higher learning due to the finances of themselves or their parents.

welfare is a good thing for a limited amount of time >> some individuals will be on welfare for their entire lives {due to lack of education and the inability to get an education}

Also the rich people vs average people bull crap only divides us more, in a society there will always be the wealthy and the poor, get over it. >>>> this is the attitude that will ALWAYS divide us as a nation. Lording it over the have-nots and NOT understanding the fact that there ARE reasons why the status quo can NOT be addressed by many Americans, only creates more dissent and unrest between the various economic strata. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
 
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Bacara said:
people who work their butts off to get the money they have shouldnt be punished for it, and that money shouldnt be given to people who made alot of poor choices in life, like not graduating high school, or not going to some sort of higher education, welfare is a good thing for a limited amount of time. Also the rich people vs average people bull crap only divides us more, in a society there will always be the wealthy and the poor, get over it.
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In part I agree, I have never been a fan of progressive tax systems and believe that they are unfair to those who have worked to get ahead my experience is that in many ways well paid people are far less of a drain on the government and social systems than poorly paid people.

That being said I do not believe a state can just throw its people on the scrap heap because they did not get ahead in life, the job of government in my opinion is to provide the conditions required for the nation as a whole to develop and protect those who do need help (this does not mean cradle to grave nannying but it does mean economic growth, attainable education of a reasonable standard and affordable health care).

Basically I don't want my government using my tax money to keep people who don't want to work in luxury but at the same time I don't my tax dollars paying politicians while people starve in a disease ridden shanty town either, there has to be a balance.
 
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Chukpike said:
And a reminder for "pro-choice" advocates why it should not have passed.

"Obama signs order affirming ban on federal funds for abortions"
http://www.latimes.com/features/heal...,5808676.story

No Health Care funds for abortions. Yeah the Democrats passed a Health Care bill increasing taxes, but denying medical coverage to women.
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It's called compromise. Something conservatives would know nothing about. It's the game of give and take. Lose a little to gain a little. It's not "denying" coverage. That's illegal, according to this new bill. It's just not providing something that isn't necessarily considered "coverage" anyway. In most cases, abortions aren't medically necessary, so why should they HAVE to be covered in the first place?

(Two can play the Devil's Advocate)
 
Rob Henderson said:
It's called compromise. Something conservatives would know nothing about. It's the game of give and take. Lose a little to gain a little. It's not "denying" coverage. That's illegal, according to this new bill. It's just not providing something that isn't necessarily considered "coverage" anyway. In most cases, abortions aren't medically necessary, so why should they HAVE to be covered in the first place?

(Two can play the Devil's Advocate)
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"In most cases, abortions aren't medically necessary, so why should they HAVE to be covered in the first place?"quote Rob Henderson MD.

Well Dr. Rob what happens to the women when it is medically necessary to save the womens life. I guess the democrats compromise and let her die.:smile:.

Not only a musician but now he knows medicine. Don't suppose you could post the stats for what percentage are considered medically necessary Doctor.:wink:

As you know, no Republican voted for the Bill so the compromise is with Democrats.
 
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