Hitler's involvement in Holocaust - Page 3




 
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January 6th, 2010  
mmarsh
 
 
Gotta agree with Senorjekips

Hitler was a control freak, not even minor decisions were allowed to be made without his expressed say-so. Therefore it is inconcievable that Hitler could have not known about the death camps.

It is possible (although my history professor at university vehmently disagreed with this) that Hitler might have entertained the Idea of forceably deporting the Jews either to America or to Palestine. My prof always thought that Hitler expressed the desire was to wipe the Jews out completely from day one.

We do know that it was Hermann Goring that came up with the idea of the death camps as it was he that came up with the "Final Solution to the Jewish Question", but Hitler both knew and approved of it.
January 6th, 2010  
radarsonar
 
The whole point is not about "If Hitler knew about the camps or not"
It is about "If he wanted to torture and torment them before killing, like it actually happened in many places?" or "it was just total jungle rule where anyone could do any harm to a jew - since they were second class citizens.

I think Hitler did want to eliminate jews, no doubt, but he was not as sick as projected (like he wanted to torment them, torture them, conduct medical experiments on them, etc) - he was cruel and inhuman but not a sick or psycho mind.
January 7th, 2010  
Yin717
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarsh
Gotta agree with Senorjekips

Hitler was a control freak, not even minor decisions were allowed to be made without his expressed say-so. Therefore it is inconcievable that Hitler could have not known about the death camps.

It is possible (although my history professor at university vehmently disagreed with this) that Hitler might have entertained the Idea of forceably deporting the Jews either to America or to Palestine. My prof always thought that Hitler expressed the desire was to wipe the Jews out completely from day one.

We do know that it was Hermann Goring that came up with the idea of the death camps as it was he that came up with the "Final Solution to the Jewish Question", but Hitler both knew and approved of it.
Well actually, their initial idea was to deport all the Jews to Madagascar I think. So your prof is wrong. That is proven. However either they couldn't claim Madagascar or it became too complicated and they went against the idea.
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January 8th, 2010  
koalaburger
 
 
Heydrich was the main man at Wansee and was killed in Checkoslovakia I think. I have seen film of him coming out of a building and a split second he looks into the camera. It is the most chilling look I have ever seen. Hitler tried to keep himself at arms length from the Hollocast but he was definately running the show. They tended to talk in euphamisms rather than directly about murder and genocide.
January 14th, 2010  
mmarsh
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yin717
Well actually, their initial idea was to deport all the Jews to Madagascar I think. So your prof is wrong. That is proven. However either they couldn't claim Madagascar or it became too complicated and they went against the idea.
Actually he wasnt. The original plan in 1937 was to deport the Jews to Palestine (Eichmann was sent there to research the idea) but the British said "no" because they were opposed to a Jewish state. The Madagascar idea came as a alternative about 1940, but was deemed too costly. But that wasnt the point, the point was that some people thought that Hitler decided to massacre the Jews only after the plans to deport them had failed. My professor adamantly believed that the genocide of the Jews was always on his agenda, possibly even before he became Chancellor.
January 14th, 2010  
A Can of Man
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarsh
Actually he wasnt. The original plan in 1937 was to deport the Jews to Palestine (Eichmann was sent there to research the idea) but the British said "no" because they were opposed to a Jewish state.
The irony of it all!!!
January 25th, 2010  
Rojik of the Arctic
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by radarsonar
The whole point is not about "If Hitler knew about the camps or not"
It is about "If he wanted to torture and torment them before killing, like it actually happened in many places?" or "it was just total jungle rule where anyone could do any harm to a jew - since they were second class citizens.

I think Hitler did want to eliminate jews, no doubt, but he was not as sick as projected (like he wanted to torment them, torture them, conduct medical experiments on them, etc) - he was cruel and inhuman but not a sick or psycho mind.
I don't think he cared how the job was done as long as it was done. Himmler's complete lack of empathy was probably responsible for for the rampant torture and other atrocities but Hitler would have received at least some form of verbal reports on the medical experiments and the like. I don't think there was much that went on without his knowledge especially in the rats den of back stabbing that was the upper echelons of the Nazi Party.
January 25th, 2010  
redcoat
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarsh
Actually he wasnt. The original plan in 1937 was to deport the Jews to Palestine (Eichmann was sent there to research the idea) but the British said "no" because they were opposed to a Jewish state. The Madagascar idea came as a alternative about 1940, but was deemed too costly. But that wasnt the point, the point was that some people thought that Hitler decided to massacre the Jews only after the plans to deport them had failed. My professor adamantly believed that the genocide of the Jews was always on his agenda, possibly even before he became Chancellor.
Pre-war the German's didn't really need to deport their Jewish population they were leaving as fast as they could already.
In 1933 the official Jewish population of Germany was 505,000 out of a total German population of 62,000,000, by the end of 1939 this number had fallen to 202,000 with another 57,000 in annexed Austria.
The vast vast majority of the Jews murdered by the Nazi's were those Jews living in the conquered countries of Eastern Europe, not Germany itself, and therefore any pre-war deportation schemes would have not saved them
 


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