History Talking!

Del Boy

Active member
Here we go then. The first post-election quiz on the boards:-


No peeping now! :-


Who was the great trail-blazer who carved a clear path for the first black person to become President of the USA.

Ah-Ah - No peeping!

Yes of course - you all know it!

It was the outgoing President of USA - Ladies and Gentleman - I give you,
President George W. Bush - by appointing both the very acceptable Colin Powell and Condeliza Rice to the very highest echelons of his administration!!

Now that is history talking! I thank you.:hide:
 
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Oh..... I thought it were the Democrats when they choose Obama over Hillary.... Then again, you'd say the same thing if she had become president. You'd only have to omit the name Powell.
You could also say that the majority of the American population would have elected a rabbit or mouse if the Democrats had put it forward. So I agree with you that Bush paved the way, but more with his horrifying way of doing politics. Everything would suffice as long as it wasn't something Republican!
 
Oh, I thought it was because Bush was so awful, the people of the US wanted to get as far away from him as possible. (Southern average white guy --> Northern Smart African American)
 
Both the last 2 posts are missing the important point altogether. It does not relate to the final showdown between Obama and McCain,; rather to the route opened up to the acceptability of a black candidate , and a successful one, in America.

The promotion of two of such excellent figures, Powell and Rice, to the forefront of government opened the route which led to Obama's selection, his defeat of the Clintons and his eventual installation.

This was all to the great credit of the people of the USA, who have thereby kicked into touch any suggestion that this could not happen. This process has now put them well ahead of the game and I sincerely hope their trust will be prove well-placed.

This is a non-partisan issue.
 
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I really wanted to stay out of this because it was a ludicrous theory right from the start but...

Where have you been for the last 140 years?

Did you miss the emancipation proclamation and the entire civil rights movement of the last 50 or so years?

To date I have yet to hear of anyone that voted for Obama because they thought Colin Powell or Condaleeza Rice were "cool" but hey we have a board full of American voters perhaps they will come to your aid and tell us their reasons.
 
October 27th, 2008
Boxing promoter King: diverse Bush administration helped pave road for Obama

By Ori Lewis
TEL AVIV - The possibility that the United States will vote in a first black president next week is in no small part due to the opportunities President George W. Bush gave to blacks in senior government posts, boxing promoter Don King said on Monday.

“We had 43 presidents in the United States, he was the 43rd president, 42 of them promised us everything and gave us nothing, both Democrats and Republicans,” King said in an interview with Reuters.

“(Bush formed) the most diverse cabinet of any president in the history of the United States. I know that they are condemning him now … but this man prepared us for a Barack Obama, for the ‘great change,’” King added, naming Bush Cabinet members Colin Powell, Condoleezza Rice, Rod Paige and Alfonso Jackson as examples.

http://blogs.reuters.com/frontrow/2...sh-administration-helped-pave-road-for-obama/
 
I really wanted to stay out of this because it was a ludicrous theory right from the start but...

Where have you been for the last 140 years?

Did you miss the emancipation proclamation and the entire civil rights movement of the last 50 or so years?


If you have something to contribute then do so, but don't sink to making matters personal if you can't do that. Would you care to see my family history over the past 140 years?

Where were you when my generation changed the world , changed the world order? I didn't need to dig it up from retrospective books, you know.

I was involved in such Freedom matters before the stars ever shone in your eyes, so keep it clean.

Did you ever actually meet any of the Generals of WW11, or any of the WW11 warriors while they were still struggling? Ever been bombed out of house and home by the Lutwaffe? Were you ever involved in the cold war countries at the height of their confrontations? Ever survived the threat of invasion? Ever actually served in the desert for your country, rather than just being an expert reader? Were you forced by war to leave your home, parents and family at the age of four, never to return?

Have you ever been involved personally with units of black segregated soldiers?

Ever been 'saved' by all-black congrations in black churches?


Where have you been for the last 140 years?

As for 'ludicrous theory' - what d'you think; that I dreamed up the proposition?

You are obviously unaware that Geo W.'s Texas administration had a most bi- partisan attitude, and that he also had at that time a very harmonious relationship with, for example, the Latino local population.

It's good to think outside the bandwagons for just once in a while, I reckon. To stop and consider something before rushing to find anyone else's second hand opinion. And politeness costs nothing. Oh, and by the way, I had never before today seen or been aware of the Don King quotes posted by Marshine; got a mind of my own, you see.

But nevertheless, Marshine, thank you; I agree with Don King on this particular point.
 
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If you have something to contribute then do so, but don't sink to making matters personal if you can't do that. Would you care to see my family history over the past 140 years?

Where were you when my generation changed the world , changed the world order? I didn't need to dig it up from retrospective books, you know.

I was involved in such Freedom matters before the stars ever shone in your eyes, so keep it clean.

You know normally I would let this pass but what exactly was your generation doing to change the world, I know the two before yours were fighting to save it but are you not claiming to have been a child (9 years old if your profile is accurate) during WW2?
Did your generation even make it to Korea?


Did you ever actually meet any of the Generals of WW11, or any of the WW11 warriors while they were still struggling? Ever been bombed out of house and home by the Lutwaffe? Were you ever involved in the cold war countries at the height of their confrontations? Ever survived the threat of invasion? Ever actually served in the desert for your country, rather than just being an expert reader? Were you forced by war to leave your home, parents and family at the age of four, never to return?
This is all nifty and I am sure someone out there will be taken in by it but being an infant during WW2 isn't a great feat and completely irrelevant to the question at hand.
As far being involved in the cold war countries during the cold war well I am not really sure as New Zealand lost interest in the cold war during the early 80s, in terms of serving my country in a desert well given my service consists to two years in the RF Cadets and 4 months in the RF before my motorcycle accident I will say no although some say Waiouru and its surrounds is a desert.

Have you ever been involved personally with units of black segregated soldiers?
Nope but this is also an indication of why your opening assumption is incorrect as by the time I was old enough to interact with US Soldiers they were already intergrated.

In fact you could argue just as effectively that whoever developed the system that promoted Powell and educated Rice so they could be selected by Bush are responsible for Obama's election, but then you would have to step back even further to those who took the step before them and then even further back...

Ever been 'saved' by all-black congrations in black churches?
Nope but I did save an All Blacks match on TV once, you can never get enough of Jona Lomu running over Mike Catt to score a try.
Ah good times...

As for 'ludicrous theory' - what d'you think; that I dreamed up the proposition?

You are obviously unaware that Geo W.'s Texas administration had a most bi- partisan attitude, and that he also had at that time a very harmonious relationship with, for example, the Latino local population.
Yes I am unaware of that although the fact that the majority of Latino's voted Democratic as did damn near every black American in the country as well as Powell and at least one Republican candidate I think I might be excused for not subscribing to your magazine.

The only thing George Bush succeeded in doing was to galvanise a nation into voting for the other guy and against a candidate that had 10 times the experience and record of Obama.
 
Hey, you make my point for me Monty. I might have let it pass, but what the hell my friend.

You asked me the questions, did you not? Had I never heard of the civil rights and associated movements ?( King was absolutely my generation). Where had I been for 140 years? So you should expect an answer, even in very brief.

You have obviously missed my generation altogether. I was not referring to my father's generation, and I am not about to elucidate for you. And as you say, you largely missed the cold war. Don't you know whether my generation made it to Korea, then; take my point? Or Malaya, or Kenya, or the forgotten war in Egypt, or Suez, or ......... no, no, I am elucidating for you. Let me just point you in the right direction :-


"Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be drenched to the bone.
If your time to you
Is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'.
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'.
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'.
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'.

The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is
Rapidly fadin'.
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin".

So why don't you just me where you have been for the past 140 years; and what your contribution to the segregation issues in America was ?

Or not, of course, as you wish.:lol:
 
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I think you are rambling and need to learn the difference between rhetorical questions and a question but maybe I have missed something so rather than bursting into song I will wait and see whether anyone has anything sensible to say on this matter.
 
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You know normally I would let this pass but what exactly was your generation doing to change the world, I know the two before yours were fighting to save it but are you not claiming to have been a child (9 years old if your profile is accurate) during WW2?
Did your generation even make it to Korea? This is all nifty and I am sure someone out there will be taken in by it but being an infant during WW2 isn't a great feat and completely irrelevant to the question at hand.


'nifty' ?? :p Pulease! And exactly what do you mean by 'taken in by it'? What are you suggesting; care to explain yourself? (Not rhetorical)

Well, I am not claiming to have been a child during WW11 - in fact I was a child in WW11 and from 4 to 9 was an evacuee because my home had been bombed out. I spent a great deal of that time with American army units including black segregated units. Believe me, being a child in & from London in WW11 and surviving, was a feat, and this is all relevant to your question regarding where I had been for the last 140 years.

Yes my generation made it to Korea; My cousin served with Argylls there and was mentioned in despatches; my young uncle was a Glorious Gloucester.




Nope but this is also an indication of why your opening assumption is incorrect as by the time I was old enough to interact with US Soldiers they were already intergrated.

Incorrect, not at all. Of course I knew that absolutely. I wanted to remind you of that, in the face of your civil rights insult. I lived this stuff.

I think I might be excused for not subscribing to your magazine.

?? - Rambling? (rhetorical)


The only thing George Bush succeeded in doing was to galvanise a nation into voting for the other guy and against a candidate that had 10 times the experience and record of Obama.


Not a very high opinion of Obama as a candidate, then? Does it not occur to you that they might have considered Obama a great candidate? (rhetorical)

In your opinion, not much of an event , a black man becoming President of the USA. No great achievement as far as you are concerned; you reckon he only made it because of Geo W. Bush's unpopularity? (Rhetorical)


Oh yes - referring to the last post, why not try saying something sensible yourself? (Rhetorical)
 
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I remember the cold war all to well.


The last operational station I was on, flew English Electric Lightnings, if I remember correctly the Mk 6 version. As regular as clockwork they would take off and intercept Soviet “Bear” aircraft heading over the North Sea to British airspace. It was my job to refuel the aircraft as soon as they landed just in case they had to go up again on another intercept, sadly I wasn't privy to the pilots debriefing regarding the intercepts. I bet they made interesting reading.


No doubt ex sub crews on the forum during this period will remember the cat and mouse game's with Soviet subs.


It seems the Russians are up to their old tricks again, sending more “Bear's” to test British reaction times.


Somehow I can't see what the cold war had to do with New Zealand or Australia except of course being very close allies of the UK.


One thing that did annoy me greatly however, the cook house always wanted various ground crew to help doing the pots and pans and generally cleaning up. I said to one NCO cook, “OK next time I have to clean out the tanks of the refueling bowser's, I'll get some of your cooks to help.”
 
Well, that's real cold war stuff; my experience was non-military. But just the same, if we ever wanted to discuss matters, we always strolled down the middle of the road if we could. I did have one or two strange interviews and invitations, but overall I got on well, with a very great deal of vodka - "commas" (as in pauses) served up hard and fast throughout meetings. Expected to drink properly - burnt chest for newbies; Very enjoyable meetings!

NZ etc., - just MontyB and I having a natter over old times, as we sometimes do; investigating my activities over the past 140 years.

I've decided to withdraw the questions I put to him and wipe my sword; he ain't such a bad old sort, that young man. All in a day's work I guess.:-D
 
Here we go then. The first post-election quiz on the boards:-


No peeping now! :-


Who was the great trail-blazer who carved a clear path for the first black person to become President of the USA.

Ah-Ah - No peeping!

Yes of course - you all know it!

It was the outgoing President of USA - Ladies and Gentleman - I give you,
President George W. Bush - by appointing both the very acceptable Colin Powell and Condeliza Rice to the very highest echelons of his administration!!

Now that is history talking! I thank you.:hide:


Del Boy

First of all, it wasnt Bush, it was LBJ when he nominated Thurgood Marshall the the USSC. That was the first black to have a position of any REAL Federal power. And a Supreme Court Justice is a much more powerful position than Secretary of State because not only does it govern the very core of our government (the US Constitution) its also a LIFE appointment unlike a Sec of State that changes every 4-8 years (roughly)

Secondly, you left out what happened to BOTH these characters after they were nominated as they were both used as political cover and scapegoats for the more radical decisions of the Bush Administration. They were also amongst the first to get the blame when things went wrong. For example, Powell for Iraq and Condi for Georgia, Iran, and espicially Russia as well as other places where Bush Foreign policy failed. They were even blamed for policies/platforms pushed by the Neocons that neither one personally agreed with.

In reality, they were nominated to be puppets, nothing more. So when you say that W opened the way for blacks, I guarantee you he didn't do it because he felt like bolstering Black people in politics, I doubt anybody in America would make that claim. Condi, and Powell were never expected to actually makes the decisions. There was ALWAYS either was Cheney or Rumsfeld in the background.
 
Good post MM, very informative, as usual.

Just let me say that this isn't a brain-child of mine, i picked it out from conversations between political commentators over the post election day period; and sure enough I see that Marshine has posted the same case from Don King, who , whatever else, is certainly a prominent black promoter of some renown!

Just an interesting point, and the programmes I saw included reference to Geo. W.'s bi-partisan record during his Texas administration, and his good relationship then with the Latino population there. I found it interesting so I stuck it up for discussion.

Anyway - always a pleasure to do business with you, even if it is mostly from opposite sides of the ring. Incidentally, I am not partisan on such issues. From distance, it is the history that interests me, and especially as it unfolds before our eyes, so that in fifty years time we can say 'Hey listen - I was there when it was happening. I saw it, I heard it, I felt it'.

Examples for me, JFK, from election night; OJ's trial, Bill Clinton's impeachment, etc., etc. I take care not to miss one moment of these matters, live as they happen, and I have an unbelievable memory for such matters; I aim to listen and learn without prejudice and take from it what I can so that I am informed accurately on those subjects. I have little interest in the partisan political argument, only for historical measurement. Cheers.
 
In reality, they were nominated to be puppets, nothing more. So when you say that W opened the way for blacks, I guarantee you he didn't do it because he felt like bolstering Black people in politics, I doubt anybody in America would make that claim. Condi, and Powell were never expected to actually makes the decisions. There was ALWAYS either was Cheney or Rumsfeld in the background.

I think you identified the whole thing of being the first to be kicked off the helicopter.
 
But nevertheless, Marshine, thank you; I agree with Don King on this particular point.
Some Democrats are finally acknowledging that Bush's cabinet has been the most diverse in the history of the office. (Even Chris Matthews, the guy with the tingle up his leg, gave President Bush kudos.)
 
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