Historic Uses OF WMD in Battle: Events in History - Page 2




 
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June 13th, 2004  
Gunner13
 
 
OK, I did some more research and dioxins are linked to birth defects and other nasty issues. However, all the reasearch was on dioxins in general, not Agent Orange in particular, and none of the studies were conducted in Viet Nam.

So we are left with a possible link to the problems VEK illustrated, but no conclusive proof as to the source.
June 13th, 2004  
Marksman
 
 
Well,i read all the post on this one and the Agent Orange code name for mixture of 2,4,5-T (2,4,5.-trichlorophenoxyacetic acid; 545.4 Kg/m3) and 2,4-D (2,4-dichlorophenoxyacetic acid; 485.1 kg/m3), altogether weighing 1 285 kg/m3; a herbicide; associated with the (2,4,5-T moiety is the impurity dioxin (2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzo-p- dioxin)was an herbicide employed during Viet Nam War. Agent Orange was not the only herbicide sprayed in Vietnam although, due to its intensified usage, it is the herbicide most commonly mentioned and blamed for health problems in connection with that period in history. There were two other herbicides, an insecticide and a chemical irritant used during the Viet Nam. They each were called by code names: Agent Blue, Agent Orange, Agent White, CS and Malathion.
June 13th, 2004  
Gunner13
 
 
Marksman,

Yes that is in line with the material I found as well. However, we still have an inconclusive mess here - lots of use, lots of anecdotal evidence, but no conclusive research. Scary as those photos are, we simply don't know with any certainty what caused it.
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June 13th, 2004  
Gunner13
 
 
OK, geting back to our main topic:

Lord Amherst & The Smallpox Blankets (A story I had heard about in High School History, but was never able to confirm):

Lord Amherst was commanding general of British forces in North America during the final battles of the so-called French & Indian War (1754-1763). He won victories against the French to acquire Canada for England and helped make England the world's chief colonizer at the conclusion of the Seven Years War among the colonial powers (1756-1763).

Despite his fame, Amherst's name became tarnished by stories of smallpox-infected blankets used as germ warfare against American Indians. These stories are reported, for example, in Carl Waldman's Atlas of the North American Indian [NY: Facts on File, 1985]. Waldman writes, in reference to a siege of Fort Pitt (Pittsburgh) by Chief Pontiac's forces during the summer of 1763:

“…Captain Simeon Ecuyer had bought time by sending smallpox-infected blankets and handkerchiefs to the Indians surrounding the fort….”. This is an early example of biological warfare, as it started an epidemic among the local Indians. Amherst himself had encouraged this tactic in a letter to Ecuyer.

Some people have doubted these stories; other people, believing the stories, nevertheless assert that the infected blankets were not intentionally distributed to the Indians, or that Lord Jeff himself is not to blame for the germ warfare tactic. However, recent research based on military correspondence and letter in Lord Amhert’s own handwriting remove all doubt about the validity of the stories about Lord Jeff and germ warfare.

As to whether the plans actually were carried out, Parkman has this to say: “…in the following spring, Gershom Hicks, who had been among the Indians, reported at Fort Pitt that the small-pox had been raging for some time among them....”

http://www.nativeweb.org/pages/legal...lord_jeff.html

Ouch, looks like it worked
June 15th, 2004  
Marksman
 
 
Unbeliveable!!!
Good story
June 18th, 2004  
Eric
 
I have a little summary on my website...
Some are a little in the conspiration theory side but reported in too many places to be ignored...
1346: Tatars in Crimea use plague-infected corpses against Italian colonists.

1763: British Gen. Jeffrey Amherst 's name became tarnished by stories of smallpox-infected blankets used as germ warfare against American Indians.

WW1: Close to 1.000.000 of gassed casualties.

1920: The British use chemicals against Kurds.

1935: Italians use Mustard gas in what is going to become Ethiopia.

1936: Japan invades China and poison rice.

WWII: No military use of Chemicals but the Germans developed new nerve and blood agents and used the ZyKlon B gas in concentration camps. About a thousand Italians die from exposure to a gas leaked from a sunken American ship.

1968: Utah: 6400 sheep die from exposure to Vx gas from the Dugway proving ground.

Vietnam war: Sarin and other agents might have been used. The famous defoliant, Orange agent, had side effect on people exposed to it.

1970: CIA uses a virus to kill Cuban pigs.

1980: US accuses Russian troops of using chemicals in Afghanistan.

1984: Iraq uses chemicals against Iranian forces.

1988: Saddan Hussein uses chemicals against Kurd civilians in the town of Alabjah.

1991: About 50 people die from Anthrax after an Iraqi chemical plant is bombed by US planes.

1995: A Japanese cult uses Sarin gas in a subway in Tokyo.

2001: Anthrax terror in Florida and Washington D.C., USA
June 18th, 2004  
Eric
 
As far as Nukes go, we have WW2 and Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
As far as Dirty Bombs go, that is to say using radioactive material to contaminate an area, I remember the German ecologists in the 80ies spreading radioactive material around a Nuke plant and claiming it was leaking and was a hazard for the population. They wanted it shut down! :P
June 19th, 2004  
Gunner13
 
 
Hmm, OK. However:

Quote:
Vietnam war: Sarin and other agents might have been used. The famous defoliant, Orange agent, had side effect on people exposed to it.
The use of sarin in Viet Nam was related to the Tailwind scandal and that was shown to be a hoax (just ask CNN). The jury is still out on Agent Orange and its effect on the civilian popluation. Lots of claims, but no proof. See previous discussion.

WWII: You should also add the use of carbon monoxide in the concentration camps by the Germans.

Quote:
About a thousand Italians die from exposure to a gas leaked from a sunken American ship.
Not familiar with this one - can you elaborate?

Quote:
1980: US accuses Russian troops of using chemicals in Afghanistan.
It wasn't just the US that made this accusation (just ask the Afganis) and they also used/supplied it for use in Cambodia in the 1970s if I recall correctly
June 19th, 2004  
Mark Conley
 
 
Eric is referring to the leakage from mustard gas containers aboard an american ship in an italian harbor...yet the figure of a thousand civillian casualties hes talking about is an estimate: its not really known how many may have actually died, because most of them ran away from the city because of the pasting.

heres a good impartial site that explains what happened:

http://www.historynet.com/wwii/blluf...ic/index1.html


On December 2nd, 1943, German bombers attacked American tankers and munitions ships in Bari Harbor off the southeast coast of Italy. They sank sixteen ships, partially destroyed four more, and set off at least two major explosions. The fires burned while hundreds of oil-soaked men were pulled out of the water.

At first, many of the survivors seemed to be all right, though a few mentioned the odd smell of garlic. Soon they began showing symptoms -- stinging eyes, skin lesions, a variety of internal problems. Four survivors died later the first day, nine the next. By the end of a month 83 men, out of the 617 who'd made it to the hospital, had died. Something bad was going on.

One of the ships (the USS John Harvey), it seems, had held 100 tons of mustard gas. Later, the Army claimed it'd been there as a deterrent -- a deterrent which had inexplicably been made top secret. We were lucky that most of the mustard gas burned off in the fires. The small part of it that'd been absorbed into floating oil was what did all the damage. And so this Bay of Bari incident produced the only mustard gas casualties in WW-II -- Americans killed by American gas.

June 19th, 2004  
1217
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Conley
What's so funny?