Hiroshima debate?

I see both of them abominable, but the bombings are worst from my point of view. The bombings were the most coward act of war ever.

An "evil weapon" for me are the ones that can kill hundreds of thousands in a single second,destroy the enviorement for thousand of years, create horrible disease to the affected people......I guess that for you an atomic weapons is just a "litle boy".

If you threw the bomb to the jananese due to their crimes in the POWs, why not throwing it to Berlin and Rome also? They were pretty bad guys too...

By the way, americans had their own POWs in Germany after WWII, and I heard that they did not had anything to do with the Hilton, actually hundred of thousands of germans died there. Ooops, I forgot that one of your allies, Mr.Stalin had a place called Gulag, but Mr. Roosvelt did not say a single word about such a nice place.
 
This is a good website. It cites atrocities on all sides.

http://www.uwsa.com/issues/trade/samtrade/sam62-04.html

Daws: Americans taken prisoner on Wake island were beheaded. Virtually the first Australian prisoners the Japanese took in Malaya were tied in barbed wire and set on fire with gasoline. After McArthur's army in the Philippines was taken, the Bataan death march left a corpse every ten or fifteen yards for 100 miles. On the Burma-Siam railroad, the combination of slave labor, starvation, disease and beatings left a POW dead for each and every Japanese railroad regiment soldier ¾ 12,500 POW bodies along a 250 mile track. Overall in the Pacific War, about one in three American, Australian and British POWS died horribly ¾ a dreadful death rate, worse than the death rate for allied soldiers in combat against the Japanese.

Another good one.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/war/wwtwo/german_pows_01.shtml

Ex-POW Heinz Hermann recalls that 'it was wonderful. After all those years of war and captivity, to be in a private home again. Welcomed by good people. It was a beautiful Christmas Day, which I'll never forget 'til the day I die.' Heinz's mother in Germany was surprised and touched to receive food parcels sent by English friends Heinz had made in Oswaldtwistle.

By the end of 1947, around 250,000 German POWs had been
repatriated, but 24,000 decided to stay in Britain. Hans Siegfried Vallentin was one of these. Like many of the others, he'd been a keen supporter of Hitler. He'd even lied about his age to get into the Luftwaffe. He was only 17 when he was shot down and taken prisoner. But now, three years later, he didn't want to go back home. He'd fallen in love with Irene, a local Oswaldtwistle girl. They still live in Oswaldtwistle and have five children, eleven grandchildren and two great grandchildren.
 
Missileer, I agree with all the info you posted. While German soldiers from the British and Canadian zones were quickly regaining strength and were helping rebuild Europe, Germans taken by the Americans were dying by the hundreds of thousands - emaciated figures in diarrhea smeared clothing, huddling pitifully in watery holes with perhaps a scrap of cardboard over their heads and a rotten potato for supper. At times many of them were reduced to drinking urine and eating grass.

April 17, 1945: The Americans opened their enormous Rheinberg Camp, six miles in circumference, with no food or shelter whatsoever. As in the other big "Rhine meadow" camps, opened in mid-April, there was initially no latrines and no water. In some camps, the men were so crowded they could not lie down. Meanwhile, at Camp Kripp, near Remagen, the half-American Charles von Luttichau determines that his German comrades are receiving about 5% as much food as their captors." Complaining to the camp commander, HE SAID: ''Forget the Geneva Convention. You don't have any rights."


http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics and History/us_war_crimes/us_war_crimes_in_world_war_II_2.htm

I guess that no one in a war has their hands clean of blood.
 
Corocotta.......For some one who can't remember the war and what went on then you can happily take the morale high ground and pour scorn on those that fought. Now it is very easy when you run out of arguments to prove your point to sit there and just two wrongs don't make a right. I saw these men and worked beside them and they never forgot what they went through, or do you think that we shouldn't have dropped the bomb and just let the Japanese kill them all off as they planned too. How is they Japanese can kill more Allied POW than all the people that were killed by the Atomic blasts, yet they are the poor souls that suffered. These Bombs brought the war to a quick end and saved millions of life's.
 
Hmmmm?

Why are we discussing POW camps in the US when atomic bombs are the subject.

One thing tho, I would never want to see hundreds of thousand of American, Aussies, British soldiers die in that invasion of Japan. And I surely don't want to see Japanese population being reduced to near zero because of the brutality of a lasting war.
 
LeEnfield said:
Corocotta.......For some one who can't remember the war and what went on then you can happily take the morale high ground and pour scorn on those that fought. Now it is very easy when you run out of arguments to prove your point to sit there and just two wrongs don't make a right. I saw these men and worked beside them and they never forgot what they went through, or do you think that we shouldn't have dropped the bomb and just let the Japanese kill them all off as they planned too. How is they Japanese can kill more Allied POW than all the people that were killed by the Atomic blasts, yet they are the poor souls that suffered. These Bombs brought the war to a quick end and saved millions of life's.
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I understand your point of view LeEnfield, but from my point of view innocent civilians shouldn´t pay for the crimes of their army. Watching the pics that these days are coming up in the newspappers and TV of incinareted childs and women make my sick, it is unjustificable sorry!! By the way, japanese were very close to surrender before the nuclears blast, but i guess that the US wanted to test their brand new toy in order to scare hyphotetic new enemies such us the....USSR?

Bobbies, I am talking about german POWs after WWII because many people here justify the nuclear blasts due to the existance of british and american POW in the pacific. I see this attitude kind of hypocrit when they were doing the same with german POWs
 
Corocotta said:
By the way, japanese were very close to surrender before the nuclears blast, but i guess that the US wanted to test their brand new toy in order to scare hyphotetic new enemies such us the....USSR?
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No they weren't. The Japanese Foreign Minister made some attempts to broker a peace agreement through the Soviets but they were not real or sincere.They were a stop gap.

While Civilian Ministers might have endorsed a peace agreement the IJA was going to fight on. They even attempted a coup on the Emporer after the A bombs to for stall the surrender.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki had Military Value and Industrial Value. The Japanese referred to them as Army Cities.

The fact is this. Whether or not you agree with it from your oh so high and shiney ivory tower on the moral high ground. The estimated US casualties in an invasion of the home islands was One Million. This does not take into account the POW's US, British, Aussie, Kiwi, Canadian and Dutch who would have been executed. It does not take into account the Aussie, Kiwi and British servicemen who would have taken part in the invasion and offensive. The bombings saved more than they killed.
 
Hiroshima and Nagasaki had Military Value and Industrial Value. The Japanese referred to them as Army Cities
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And why were they the less bombed city of Japan if they had such an important militar value?
 
Because targets are prioritized. Tokyo , Sasebo, Kobe, Iwakuni were all higher value targets.
 
03USMC said:
Because targets are prioritized. Tokyo , Sasebo, Kobe, Iwakuni were all higher value targets.
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Well, then I guess that it wasn´t that important. From my point of view the blast were made to scare the japanese, not to destroy a couple industries or a few thousand soldiers, if these would have been the porpouse of the nuclear blast conventional explosives would have been more that enough. And again, killing hundreds and hundreds of thousand people just to impress the enemy is not very ethical to me, but I guess that your military logic is hard to understand for me.
 
Corocotta said:
April 17, 1945: The Americans opened their enormous Rheinberg Camp, six miles in circumference, with no food or shelter whatsoever. As in the other big "Rhine meadow" camps, opened in mid-April, there was initially no latrines and no water. In some camps, the men were so crowded they could not lie down. Meanwhile, at Camp Kripp, near Remagen, the half-American Charles von Luttichau determines that his German comrades are receiving about 5% as much food as their captors." Complaining to the camp commander, HE SAID: ''Forget the Geneva Convention. You don't have any rights."


http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics and History/us_war_crimes/us_war_crimes_in_world_war_II_2.htm

I guess that no one in a war has their hands clean of blood.
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I wish there weren't phrases like this in almost every one of your posts.

"Bacque specifically commends General Patton for behavior towards his POWs in a civilized manner. His Third Army freed vast numbers of German captives during May 1945, to the dismay, no doubt, of the Zionists who controlled Washington."

"Nearly all the surviving records of the Rhineland death camps were destroyed."
1980: The International Committee of the Red Cross refuses to open its archives to James Bacque and other investigators into Allied atrocities. To this day, the ICRC has remained silent on the subject, despite the visits of Pradervand and other Red Cross delegates to many death camps.

Sounds like the conspiracy nuts have learned to write.
 
Corocotta said:
I sent you a PM answering you because I find this totally off topic
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As I answered in the PM, I don't like secret messages to be decoded with my decoder ring. Keep it in the forum so everyone can enjoy and the Mods will warn us when we drift off topic. Besides the topic is Hiroshima Debate and that's what we're doing.
 
Missileer said:
Corocotta said:
I sent you a PM answering you because I find this totally off topic
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As I answered in the PM, I don't like secret messages to be decoded with my decoder ring. Keep it in the forum so everyone can enjoy and the Mods will warn us when we drift off topic. Besides the topic is Hiroshima Debate and that's what we're doing.
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I thought it was pretty direct, but I will decipher it for you.

I wish there weren't phrases like this in almost every one of your posts.

"Bacque specifically commends General Patton for behavior towards his POWs in a civilized manner. His Third Army freed vast numbers of German captives during May 1945, to the dismay, no doubt, of the Zionists who controlled Washington."
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I told you that the importance of the Zionist lobby in the US is well known, that´s why you have an organization called America Zionist Movement http://www.azm.org/

http://www.jewishsightseeing.com/us...S_House_of_Representatives/u-s_house_reps.htm


http://www.jewishsightseeing.com/usa/wash_dc/capitol_building/U_S_Senate/u-s_senate.htm
 
Ah, I get you now. I'm poo-pooing your source as an anti-semitic idiot and then I showed some of his quotes and misinformation as not being provable. Then, you showed me more anti-semitic websites to try and bolster his claims.

See, I understood all along.
 
Missileer said:
Ah, I get you now. I'm poo-pooing your source as an anti-semitic idiot and then I showed some of his quotes and misinformation as not being provable. Then, you showed me more anti-semitic websites to try and bolster his claims.

See, I understood all along.
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http://www.jewishsightseeing.com/ anti-semitic? That is an oxymoron. Please, enter the web and read.
 
Hey can we get back on topic!!

Corocotta in one of my previous posts i showed that nagasaki and hiroshima were military cities! As for japan being close to surrender before the bombs i seriously doubt that and it has been shown that the whole japanese population was ready to be militarized and only the intervention of the emperor actually led to surrender.

'from my point of view innocent civilians shouldn´t pay for the crimes of their army.' - Then the japanese are just as guilty if not more so than the americans look at this about the nanking massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_massacre

20000-80000 women raped
200000-300000 massacred

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki

If you read this you will see in the section on supporting the bomb that if america had waited for japan to surrender whilst still using bombing and blockades then "Immediately after the defeat, some estimated that 10 million people were likely to starve to death"
 
Shadowalker said:
Hey can we get back on topic!!

Corocotta in one of my previous posts i showed that nagasaki and hiroshima were military cities! As for japan being close to surrender before the bombs i seriously doubt that and it has been shown that the whole japanese population was ready to be militarized and only the intervention of the emperor actually led to surrender.

'from my point of view innocent civilians shouldn´t pay for the crimes of their army.' - Then the japanese are just as guilty if not more so than the americans look at this about the nanking massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_massacre

20000-80000 women raped
200000-300000 massacred

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki

If you read this you will see in the section on supporting the bomb that if america had waited for japan to surrender whilst still using bombing and blockades then "Immediately after the defeat, some estimated that 10 million people were likely to starve to death"
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Okey, check the section "oposition to the use of atomic bomb", Leo Szilard, a scientist who played a major role in the development of the atomic bomb, argued:

"If the Germans had dropped atomic bombs on cities instead of us, we would have defined the dropping of atomic bombs on cities as a war crime, and we would have sentenced the Germans who were guilty of this crime to death at Nuremberg and hanged them."

The Geneva Convention defines the use of certain weapons ( see cluster bombs, poisonous weapons...) in heavy populated areas such us war crimes, I belive that nukes are a "bit" more dangerous than cluster bombs.

Quotes of american celebrities:

Eisenhower wrote in his memoir The White House Years:
"In 1945 Secretary of War Stimson, visiting my headquarters in Germany, informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act? During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment, was I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives
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The United States Strategic Bombing Survey, after interviewing hundreds of Japanese civilian and military leaders after Japan surrendered, reported:

"Based on a detailed investigation of all the facts, and supported by the testimony of the surviving Japanese leaders involved, it is the Survey's opinion that certainly prior to 31 December 1945, and in all probability prior to 1 November 1945, Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war, and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated.
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Many critics believe that the U.S. had ulterior motives in dropping the bombs, including justifying the $2 billion investment in the Manhattan Project, testing the effects of nuclear weapons, exacting revenge for the attacks on Pearl Harbor, and demonstrating U.S. capabilities to the Soviet Union.
 
03USMC said:
In and of itself it's not. However your use of it to prove "Zionist Control" is.
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I just wanted to probe that the in the US house of representatives there is a big amount of jews (and probably many of them zionist).

Jewish Members of the House of the 109th Congress (26)
Gary Ackerman, Shelley Berkley, Howard Berman, Eric Cantor, Ben Cardin, Susan Davis, Rahm Emanuel, Eliot Engel, Bob Filner, Barney Frank, Jane Harman, Steve Israel, Tom Lantos, Sander Levin, Nita Lowey, Jerrold Nadler, Steve Rothman, Bernard Sanders, Jan Schakowsky, Adam Schiff, Allyson Schwartz, Brad Sherman, Henry Waxman, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Anthony Weiner, Robert Wexler
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2005 Jewish senators—Barbara Boxer, Norm Coleman, Russell Feingold, Dianne Feinstein, Herb Kohl, Frank Lautenberg, Carl Levin, Joseph Lieberman, Charles Schumer, Arlen Specter, Ron Wyden
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Is this an oxymoron?
 
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