Charge 7 said:but we do not as a people take any joy in killing even for vengeance.
Consider that Japan only surrendered after a second bomb and even after that, there was a coup de tat attempted to kidnap the Emperor and somehow stop the surrender from happening. Japan would not have surrendered until well into the planned invasion, IF EVER.Missileer said:I think this is closest to the truth.
"How could a president, or the others charged with responsibility for the decision, answer to the American people if... after the bloodbath of an invasion of Japan, it became known that a weapon sufficient to end the war had been available by midsummer and was not used?"
I think that the resistance that Japan had shown in the Pacific island hopping campaign demonstrated the futility hope for a Japanese surrender.
chewie_nz said:Charge 7 said:but we do not as a people take any joy in killing even for vengeance.
sorry charge (and i know this is comparing past to present) there is alot that suggests otherwise on this board.
i really dont mean to flame anyone i just felt it worth mentioning that some people will take any oppertunity to hate. not that i think it's a national trait or anything....it's just People.
Your statement could use a good bit more ellaboration. I believe that the gist of it is that "God did not approve of Hiroshima and Nagasaki," is that correct Marshall?Field_Marshal said:am tellinya good ol chaps, you created those weaps and you gotta deal with em. Godl be very unpleased me thinks...
Charge 7 said:Well, certainly not as much a factor as the other considerations, but I do believe it was weighed in. Americans hated the Japanese at the time it's true, but we do not as a people take any joy in killing even for vengeance.
Young Winston said:Charge 7 said:Well, certainly not as much a factor as the other considerations, but I do believe it was weighed in. Americans hated the Japanese at the time it's true, but we do not as a people take any joy in killing even for vengeance.
After Pearl Harbour, the US Government beat the "vengence" drum very loud.
Read "h**l in the Pacific" and many other sources.
Japan was blockaded and almost out of raw materials and low on food and the fire bomb raids were almost unapposed, the Japanese were on the verge of surrendering, and everyone must have known it.
So why was it imperitave to invade, and risk heavy casualties, or drop the bombs?
Boobies said:The bombs saved lot of lives alrihgt. Can you imagine the civilian casualties if war dragged on? Civilian casualties would not be only in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It would happen at everywhere in Japan. Can you imagine the Russians joined the fightas well, there would be lot more vengence besides coming from the US corner.
It is very easy to call the US evil now-a-day, but Japan called this on themselves when it attacked other Asian countries and bombed Pearl Harbor.
Question: Howcome, Japan, an aggressor and of WWII is getting so much empathies and moral support while the victims are being neglected? Why do the victims always being judged while the perpetrators enjoy the rights of humanities?
By "Japanese Doves" I assume you mean those who were pushing for peace. They were hard at work, certainly, and they had the deck so thoroughly stacked against them that their chances of success were extremely poor indeed. The "never die, never surrender" Japanese Warhawks were even so insane as to attempt to kidnap the Emperor to stop him from surrendering after Hiroshima and Nagasaki were both lying under the mushroom clouds of Atom Bombs. I think that the reality of the Atom Bomb confronting Japan's warhawks with the possibility of no honorable death in battle ... I think it instilled enough doubt for the surrender to actually happen. Lets be honest, 1.) These folks were nuts and they didn't seem to care how many Japanese died. They were all for arming the women and children, for instance. They were already using Kamakaze attacks: young teenage kids they conviced into suicide "for the glory of Japan". 2.) They were quite thoroughly in control.Ashes said:Was there no alternative to the dropping the Atomic bombs at that particular time?
Japan was blockaded and almost out of raw materials and low on food and the fire bomb raids were almost unapposed, the Japanese were on the verge of surrendering, and everyone must have known it.
So why was it imperitave to invade, and risk heavy casualties, or drop the bombs?
The Japanese doves had been working to end the war on the condition of retention of the throne, which was given later anyway.
My reading of history, I don't see diplomacy creating a satisfactory outcome. To be blunt, Japan needed to be completely declawed and defanged. Only Nazi Germany can compare with WW2 Japan's blatant irresponsibility and attrocities in war. Japan would have been very unlikely to accept surrender scenarios in which they were robbed of their ability of waging war in the future. Nothing less was acceptable from China and the USA's point of view.Operation Olympic, the invasion of Kyushu, was set to begin in November 1945; and later Operation Coronet, the invasion of Honshu near Tokyo, scheduled for the spring of 1946,
the bombs were dropped on Aug. 6th and 9th, so what was the haste, could'nt the bombing have been put back to a latter date, closer to the invasion time if diplomacy failed?
Quite true and none too surprising that Truman was influenced by the enormous amount of money that the Manhattan Project had cost. This was only one factor of many.Some critics believe that the U.S. had ulterior motives in dropping the bombs, including justifying the $2 billion investment in the Manhattan Project, testing the effects of nuclear weapons,
For this, we can be grateful. Manchuria and the whole of Korea might have become the another addition to the Soviet empire.exacting revenge for the attacks on Pearl Harbor, and demonstrating U.S. capabilities to the Soviet Union who, under Vasilevsky, were poised to run through the Japanese army in the biggest land battle of the Pacific war, taking out 600,000 of them, and the Americans wanted it finished before the Soviets had much say in the Pacific.
The truth of the matter was pretty simple though: Only the USA could have invaded Japan. The loss of Manchuria was of secondary importance and the Japanese leadership would have cheerfully abandonned it entirely if they could have somehow returned all the troops stationed there back to Japan to defend it. It was only the USA and its Navy that made this impossible. It was only the USA that had any chance of invading Japan. The Russians asked if we wanted any help in the invasion. We said "no thank you, very kind of you, go away please." The rapid succession of military defeats at least demonstrated how the fight for Japan itself would surely play out. Not a pretty picture of course. The Atom Bombs were the all important last straw. Like I already said, the warhawks that were running everything lost just enough confidence in Hiroshima and Nagasaki to allow some of them to contemplate surrender at all. The Atom Bombs were not the only factor and I don't think that anyone is claiming that they were.Japanese sources have stated that the atomic bombings themselves weren't the principal reason for capitulation. Instead, they contend, it was not the American atomic attacks on August 6 and August 9, but the swift and devastating Soviet victories on the mainland in the week following Stalin's August 8 declaration of war that forced the Japanese message of surrender on August 15, 1945. Certainly the fact of both enemies weighed into the decision, but it was more the fear of Soviet occupation that hastened imperialistic Japan's acceptance of defeat.
Japanese sources have stated that the atomic bombings themselves weren't the principal reason for capitulation. Instead, they contend, it was not the American atomic attacks on August 6 and August 9, but the swift and devastating Soviet victories on the mainland in the week following Stalin's August 8 declaration of war that forced the Japanese message of surrender on August 15, 1945. Certainly the fact of both enemies weighed into the decision, but it was more the fear of Soviet occupation that hastened imperialistic Japan's acceptance of defeat.
The truth of the matter was pretty simple though: Only the USA could have invaded Japan. The loss of Manchuria was of secondary importance and the Japanese leadership would have cheerfully abandonned it entirely if they could have somehow returned all the troops stationed there back to Japan to defend it. It was only the USA and its Navy that made this impossible. It was only the USA that had any chance of invading Japan. The Russians asked if we wanted any help in the invasion. We said "no thank you, very kind of you, go away please." The rapid succession of military defeats at least demonstrated how the fight for Japan itself would surely play out. Not a pretty picture of course. The Atom Bombs were the all important last straw. Like I already said, the warhawks that were running everything lost just enough confidence in Hiroshima and Nagasaki to allow some of them to contemplate surrender at all.
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