Hiroshima debate? - Page 14




 
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August 15th, 2005  
LeEnfield
 
 
Kilgore......General LeMay had been an American Air force General in Europe before taking command of the American Bombing campaign against Japan and he took a lot of Bomber Harris Ideas with him. He found while checking the results of the high altitude bombing raids against Japan that they just were not hitting the targets. So he brought the bombers down to 10.000 feet and loaded them with incendiaries bombs and and scattered them far and wide across the cities. The fire storms from these blaze's were so violent that some of the bombers had there wings torn off by the thermals winds caused by the flames other reported seeing doors and other debris shooting up past there planes.
There were thousands more killed in these raids than were ever killed in Dresden.
August 15th, 2005  
Missileer
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich
I can't remember the source, or if its accurate but I remember hearing that the US only had the two A-bombs (Little Boy & Fat Man) ready to go for August 1945. Can anyone confirm that? I know they had the plutonium but not sure about how soon they could produce the next one (which thankfully wasn't needed!!)
I saw on the History Channel that the President had turned down a request to drop 7 more. Instead, he sent a huge air strike of bombers and hit some industrial cities a few days after Nagasaki. Fat man was Plutonium and Little Boy was Uranium. Little Boy was the first nuke to be used in warfare. Here is the story I saw.

http://www.airandspacemagazine.com/A...5/AS/tlrd.html

Check this movie out if you can find it. It was about the building of the bomb.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097336/
August 15th, 2005  
LeEnfield
 
 
Remember the second Atom bomb was made from German Uranium Material that was on it's way to Japan. When Germany officially surrendered they instructed all there submarines to surface and make for the nearest Allied port and had over the submarine to them. The Japanese Officers on board killed them selfs, and you can imagine the Americans surprise to find such a rich source of material to construct another bomb. You can also ask your self just what the Japanese would have done with highly radioactive material
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August 15th, 2005  
Boobies
 
 

Topic: LOL


Coro, Coro, PM apologized, but did the nation as a whole feel the remorse? I am sure Germany did.

If Japan was truely sorry, then why did they rewrote (soft toned) their history books about the WWII event?

If Japan was truely sorry, why are the Korean, Chinese, and Philipino sex-slaves still feel injusticed? Where are the compensations? Where are the true court hearings for these women?

If Japan was truely sorry, why are they still try to claim island theirs, when Koreans are the rightful owner?

If Japan was truely sorry, why did Japan's PM and the congress visit Yasukuni Shrine which burried numerous Class A WWII criminals?

If Japan was truely sorry and justice served, why are so many people here (on this board) are still angry towards Japan's wrong doing in the past and present? Let me say this, they are not hateful people. Much of the ahte towards Germany is settled, but not Japan. can you tell us why.

Would you consider Germen are truely sorry if Germany's high councils visit Aldof Hitler's grave?

Would you consider Germen are truely sorry if Germany starts publishing history text books that soft tone the killing of Jews and the invasion of other nations?

Apologies are good but apologies without action backing up = fake and lies. It seems like, Coro, you like to live on lies and like to be fed with fake apologies.
August 15th, 2005  
Boobies
 
 

Topic: Oh hey look


Hey Coro, look how Japan is sorry.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...736425,00.html

World News

August 16, 2005

Apology by leader over war gets lost in translation
By Richard Lloyd Parry
The Japanese Prime Minister issued two statements to mark the end of the Second World War — one said sorry and one didn’t



JUNICHIRO KOIZUMI, the Prime Minister of Japan, attempted to appease his Asian neighbours and avoid angering Japanese nationalists yesterday by offering two separate statements on the 60th anniversary of the end of the Second World War.
In a written statement, approved by his Cabinet, he repeated an unambiguous expression of “deep remorse and heartfelt apology” for Japan’s “colonisation and aggression” during the war.

But the similarly worded speech that he read aloud at a ceremony attended by Emperor Akihito and members of the Government omitted all references to colonialism, aggression or apology.

Although Mr Koizumi himself did not make an appearance, two members of his Cabinet and 47 MPs joined 200,000 Japanese visitors to the controversial Yasukuni shrine in central Tokyo, where the country’s war dead, including executed war criminals, are worshipped as Shinto deities.

There Japanese of all ages, including elderly veterans of the war in Imperial Army uniforms, offered quiet prayers of consolation to the dead, sang wartime songs and listened to speeches calling for a renewed spirit of pride and patriotism among young Japanese.

Right-wing ultra-nationalists on black lorries blared out slogans through loudspeakers angrily denouncing anti- Japanese demonstrations in China. In one extraordinary scene, student demonstrators who unveiled anti-war banners were punched, kicked and spat on by a mob of rightwingers under the noses of the police.
One trembling young man was led away to an ambulance, with blood streaming from his mouth. No attempt was made to identify or detain his assailants.

Two rightwingers and six left-wing activists were arrested during the course of the day.

“I come here every year to pray for my dead friends but I am really worried by the way that society is moving towards the Right,” Nobuyoshi Furuta, a 69-year-old retired businessman, said.

“If I said something to contradict those people, they would attack me. They use violence against those who disagree with them,” he added.

The wording of Mr Koizumi’s apology was based on that first used by his predecessor, Tomiichi Murayama, on the 50th anniversary of Japan’s surrender, in 1995.

But, like Mr Murayama ten years ago, he omitted its most apologetic elements from his public speech at the Nippon Budokan Hall in central Tokyo, which was broadcast on television news.

The result was two subtly different statements: one clear apology for overseas consumption and a watered-down domestic version stripped of anything that could be construed by nationalists as humiliatingly self-critical. The Government of China, which experienced bitter and violent anti-Japanese demonstrations in April, was scathing about the repetition of the old apology and damning about the visit to the shrine by Yuriko Koike, the Environment Minister, and Hidehisa Otsuji, the Health and Welfare Minister.

“As the biggest victim of Japan’s militaristic invasion, we strongly demand the Japanese Government to correctly view history with concrete actions, to reflect on its invasion and to no longer do things that hurt the victim countries’ people,” the Chinese Foreign Ministry said.

There were 205,000 visitors at the Yasukunis shrine yesterday compared with 60,000 on the same day last year. Several visitors said that they had been inspired to come because of the anti-Japanese feeling in China. “Sometimes you don’t realise how patriotic you are until something like that happens,” Koichi Sato, a 26-year-old factory worker, said.

“People have different opinions but for us the war was a war of liberation which freed Asian countries from Western colonialism.”

‘WE EXPRESS OUR DEEP REMORSE’

In his written statement, Junichiro Koizumi, the Japanese Prime Minister, said: “Japan caused huge damage and suffering to many countries, especially the people of Asia, with its colonisation and aggression. Humbly accepting this fact of history, we again express our deep remorse and heartfelt apology and offer our condolences to the victims of the war at home and abroad.”

The word used for apology was “owabi”. It is a less formal word than “shazai”, the term favoured by China and by organisations of former British prisoners of war.

But Mr Koizumi’s spoken statement at the Nippon Budokan Hall, in the presence of Emperor Akihito and the media, omitted the references to “colonisation and aggression” and “apology”, referring only to “remorse”, rather than “deep remorse”.


Coro, please read the whole thing not just the one that sympathize Japan. Thanks Ace. Please tell your "Pragmatic views" to the POWs and the war deads caused by japan.




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August 15th, 2005  
Lord Londonderry
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeEnfield
Remember the second Atom bomb was made from German Uranium Material that was on it's way to Japan. When Germany officially surrendered they instructed all there submarines to surface and make for the nearest Allied port and had over the submarine to them. The Japanese Officers on board killed them selfs, and you can imagine the Americans surprise to find such a rich source of material to construct another bomb. You can also ask your self just what the Japanese would have done with highly radioactive material
I'll check this out but I think the first bomb was from uranium (little boy) and second bomb was from plutonium(fat man). I could be wrong.

An excellent book about the fire bombing of Japan orchestrated by Curtis Le May is Torch to the Enemy (forget who wrote it) . A great little book. Forum contributors should get their hands on a copy.

Why does Japan deny a lot of their war guilt? Post war reconstruction and politics was much different than that for Germany. Some A grade war criminal were tried and executed others were released. The Emperor was retained. Many Japanese still see themselves as the victims due to the A-bombs. Education in Japanese schools is weak on WW2.

It's very complicated. Japan has a very complex society.
August 16th, 2005  
Rich
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missileer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich
I can't remember the source, or if its accurate but I remember hearing that the US only had the two A-bombs (Little Boy & Fat Man) ready to go for August 1945. Can anyone confirm that? I know they had the plutonium but not sure about how soon they could produce the next one (which thankfully wasn't needed!!)
I saw on the History Channel that the President had turned down a request to drop 7 more. Instead, he sent a huge air strike of bombers and hit some industrial cities a few days after Nagasaki. Fat man was Plutonium and Little Boy was Uranium. Little Boy was the first nuke to be used in warfare. Here is the story I saw.

http://www.airandspacemagazine.com/A...5/AS/tlrd.html

Check this movie out if you can find it. It was about the building of the bomb.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097336/
Missileer, Cheers for the info. Rich
August 16th, 2005  
Whispering Death
 
 
A study done for Secretary of War Henry Stimson's staff by William Shockley estimated that conquering Japan would cost 1.7–4 million American casualties, including 400,000–800,000 fatalities, and five to ten million Japanese fatalities.
August 16th, 2005  
Corocotta
 
 

Topic: Re: LOL


Quote:
Originally Posted by Boobies
Coro, Coro, PM apologized, but did the nation as a whole feel the remorse? I am sure Germany did.

Do you want each jananesse citizen to say sorry?

If Japan was truely sorry, then why did they rewrote (soft toned) their history books about the WWII event?

This is something that hapens in many countries: Russian text books do not talk about the Gulag; USA books do not talk about Indian genocide; Spanish text books do not talk about Indian genocide; British text books do not talk about the crimes against the Aborigenes in Australia...and so on. Countries usually keep their s**t in the closet.If Japan was truely sorry, why are the Korean, Chinese, and Philipino sex-slaves still feel injusticed? Where are the compensations? Where are the true court hearings for these women?

If Japan was truely sorry, why are they still try to claim island theirs, when Koreans are the rightful owner?

I can not give my opinion about this because i had no idea about it

If Japan was truely sorry, why did Japan's PM and the congress visit Yasukuni Shrine which burried numerous Class A WWII criminals?

If this really hapened definetly is not something good. But I can answer with this example, many people in Russia still visit Stalin´s grave, and he killed 40 million russians

If Japan was truely sorry and justice served, why are so many people here (on this board) are still angry towards Japan's wrong doing in the past and present? Let me say this, they are not hateful people. Much of the ahte towards Germany is settled, but not Japan. can you tell us why.

Yes, I noticed that, I heard that somebody said that US should have thrown 4 nukes to Japan at least. I guess that many people wanted Japan as humillated as Germany was
Would you consider Germen are truely sorry if Germany's high councils visit Aldof Hitler's grave?

Definetly not

Would you consider Germen are truely sorry if Germany starts publishing history text books that soft tone the killing of Jews and the invasion of other nations?

Countries do not publish books, they are publish by people with certain ideas. You can not attack a all country due to the ideas of a few

Apologies are good but apologies without action backing up = fake and lies. It seems like, Coro, you like to live on lies and like to be fed with fake apologies.

I just quoted a web page where Japan PM beg pardon, it seems that him beging pardon bothers you...it is important also to forget. In a couple of generations may be?
August 16th, 2005  
LeEnfield
 
 
In Germany they will admit that what their country did during WW2 was wrong, and it has brought a collective shame upon their Nation. In Japan they feel what they was right and they were just exercising there right to expand in to other countries. What ever else happened was other peoples fault for trying to stop them.