Hiroshima debate? - Page 12




 
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August 11th, 2005  
Lord Londonderry
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charge 7
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Originally Posted by Young Winston
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Originally Posted by Charge 7
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Originally Posted by Young Winston
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Originally Posted by Charge 7
Well, certainly not as much a factor as the other considerations, but I do believe it was weighed in. Americans hated the Japanese at the time it's true, but we do not as a people take any joy in killing even for vengeance.
After Pearl Harbour, the US Government beat the "vengence" drum very loud.

Read "h**l in the Pacific" and many other sources.
Why don't you read my full posts? If you had, you would know that my father fought the Japanese in the Pacific as a US Marine. My mother's brother was a POW of them and was forced into slave labor by them. I know full well what happened in the Pacific. That was not what I was talking about in so much as what the US administration and the American people as a whole felt. Vengeance yes, but killing for the sake of killing no - not the greater majority of Americans.
Vengence, unfortunately can bring its own pleasures. Much documentation of US and Allied soldiers experiences has shown that many enjoyed killing Japanese. It was the nature of the fighting, Japanese atrocities and the attitudes that prevailed at the time towards the Japanese race that brought this out. Even an idiot would know that it is not a part of American culture to kill just for the sake of it.

In the heat of battle, some terrible things were done on both sides. But that was the way it was. Ordinary people were brutalized by their experiences.

Of course you know all this already.

Most of this is off topic. Should continue this under another heading.
So then it appears you've finally understood what I was saying all along.
We all have understood all along but you didn't realize it.
August 11th, 2005  
Missileer
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBA_PAKI
There are three major factors that conclude the use of Atom Bomb over Japan in WWII:

- The huge risk involved in conventional invasion of Japan by US forces as Japanese were well known for their stubborn resistance during fighting on ground. And this meant that huge number of Man-power would be lost in the invasion process.

- The projection of power to Soviet Union.

- Japanese leader "Suzuki's" decision of not to surrender even after the defeat. This perception is widely used by US Media to justify the act of use of Atomic Bombs.

Also do note that this decision was made by President Harry S. Truman and it might be possible that he had a harsher perception about armed conflicts.
I agree with your perception of President Truman. He was a tough little character with a mean streak. He once threatened to kick a reporter's butt because he criticized his daughter's piano playing. He didn't care for the Japanese in the beginning of the war and was really pissed at the end. Most Americans, including me, believe that type of man was what we needed during the war. The old timers called him Harry Assed Truman.
August 11th, 2005  
Strongbow
 
 
More people-100,000-died in the 9th March incendiary attack than at Hiroshima (Max Hastings).

Oddly enough, Soviet entry into the war on August 8th was more influential than the atomic explosions in convincing Japanese leaders that they must quit (Max Hastings).

Heard of Max Hastings, Mr Charge?
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August 11th, 2005  
LeEnfield
 
 
Max Hastings, a reporter but like a lot a people he was not around when all this went on. You really needed to be involved in this period to have some understanding of what it was all about. Okay you have read books, and have seen John Wayne do his stuff. To be around at that time and see the effort that went into this war, to meet people who lost relatives in this war. Many of of your views on these matters have been shaped by your teachers or your parents. I don't think that during this time you would not find many people who were worried about dropping the Atom Bomb, they were only to thankful that the war was over.
August 11th, 2005  
Charge 7
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strongbow
More people-100,000-died in the 9th March incendiary attack than at Hiroshima (Max Hastings).

Oddly enough, Soviet entry into the war on August 8th was more influential than the atomic explosions in convincing Japanese leaders that they must quit (Max Hastings).

Heard of Max Hastings, Mr Charge?
Interesting, Strongbow how you always take aim at me on these threads despite the postings of several others here who have echoed my statements. Have a vendetta do we?

As your countryman, LeEnfield said, Max Hastings wasn't there. I'll take the word of the participants over a reporter with a book to sell.
August 13th, 2005  
Lord Londonderry
 
If any of you people have read Max Hastings books or articles you would know that his opinion has never been against the dropping of the bomb on Hiroshima. He is actually sympathetic to the reasons why it was dropped. His arguments are very compelling.

He wrote an article last week, I think it was in the Times headed

"It's all too easy, knowing what we know now, to accuse Truman of being a war criminal"

Strongbow is stating some information researched by an excellent author of non-fiction books on WW2.

Max Hastings most recent work is Armageddon:The Battle for Germany 1944-45. He is researching a study of the war against Japan.

Some of you forum contributors better start reading some of Max Hastings work. He is a great writer, an excellent researcher with considerable knowledge and perspective of WW2.
August 13th, 2005  
Young Winston
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeEnfield
Max Hastings, a reporter but like a lot a people he was not around when all this went on. You really needed to be involved in this period to have some understanding of what it was all about. Okay you have read books, and have seen John Wayne do his stuff. To be around at that time and see the effort that went into this war, to meet people who lost relatives in this war. Many of of your views on these matters have been shaped by your teachers or your parents. I don't think that during this time you would not find many people who were worried about dropping the Atom Bomb, they were only to thankful that the war was over.
Max Hastings has stated compelling arguments supporting the dropping of the atom bombs. You need to read his material which Strongbow seems to have done.
August 13th, 2005  
Strongbow
 
 
The following is an extract from a Max Hastings article:

"In August 1945, amid a world sick of death, Allied lives seemed very precious, while the enemy appeared to value neither his own nor those of the innocent. Truman's Hiroshima judgement may seem wrong in the eye's of posterity, but it is easy to understand why it seemed right to most of his contempories".


Mr Charge, Max Hastings has always written powerful arguments supporting Truman and his contempories for their decision to use the A-bomb on Hiroshima.

Have you read much of his material? "Das Reich" is a fantastic book about an SS Panser Division in France during the Normandy landings.

I think you would enjoy his books.
August 13th, 2005  
Charge 7
 
 
I welcome the suggestion of Mr. Hastings' books. Should I come across one and have the time to read it, rest assured I will. Trust me though, I have quite enough reading going on in my life these days. When an officer has returned to duty after some years of retirement they don't exactly say "hi" and let you just go on like it was yesterday. Add to that I am beginning a new chapter in my military career as a leadership trainer.
August 13th, 2005  
LeEnfield
 
 
What ever Max Hastings wrote you really needed to be around at this time to understand the mood of the people. Even today on the news were some ex Japanese POW's who were saying that can't even be in the same room as a Japanese person over what they saw and went through.