SENOJEKIPS
hi thanks for your reply wasn't really looking for one however as for you stating the UN on anything is absoloutly pointless as most of the world agree UN is a corrupt and worthless body, hence the saying ''useless notions'' the united nations are and always have been pro Arab, just look at their relationship with yasser Arafat the most successful terrorist ever, and please don't tell me you don't think he was ! the world gave the ******* the noble peace prize! so popular opinion doesn't count for much now does it? also senojekips i have no problem in debating with you but as you already know im not going to change your views and your'e sure as hell can't change mine but what i do submit to you is that you only paint half a picture, we are all well aware of extreme zionism but you are wrong to portray the whole government of israel and the IDF as being so , you have no proof of that what so ever , secondly being you are so familier with the un YOU WILL THEN BE FAMILIER THAT THEY SANCTIONED ISRAEL NOT TO resettle any palestinian refugees however israel did because they gave a dam unlike the UN and the rest of the Arab world,
Well the Jews conquered the land of Israel that was given to them by Divine right. They took over from the Canaanites and other tribes who had lived there before but, instead of wiping them out, as some accounts would have it, the Jews completely absorbed those peoples.This is evidenced by the many pagan rites and rituals that were practiced in the land throughout the period of the two kingdoms. And so when the Assyrians and Babylonians came along, all they found was Jews because Canaanites and others all became part of the Jewish people. And so, in addition to Divine mandate we have the argument that we are the indigenous people of the land. Then, as the book of Kings shows, the Assyrians settled the land of Israel with all manners of Gentile peoples from southern Turkey, northern Syria, and Lebanon. These peoples converted to a rudimentary form of Judaism, which also permitted pagan rites, but over time it became more monotheistic. These people became known as Samaritans and they vied with the Jews for control of the land much as the newcomers we call Palestinians do today. Then the Greeks took over the land and settled it with Hellenized Syrians and Egyptians. And so now we had Jews, Greeks, and Samaritans all living in the land.
Then came the Romans who destroyed Jewish sovereignty but even after they did the composition of the land stayed the same - Jews, Greeks, and Samaritans. Then the Roman Empire became Christian and they imposed Christianity on the empire. The entire Greek community, the majority of the Samaritans, and a few Jews converted to Christianity.
Then came the Arabs who took the land away from the Romans (Called Byzantine by this time.) and they imposed the Jiziya and Kharaj tax. This caused most of the Greeks and almost all of the remaining Samaritans (A tiny remnant has persisted to this day.) to convert to Islam and to intermarry with the Arab newcomers. The identity of these people switched from Greek to Arab. This happened for the Arab Christians too though they retained their Christianity. But the Jews did not see themselves as Arab because the element of Jewish nationhood is an integral part of our religion whilst Islam and Christianity are religions but not nations as well.
Then the Arab Empire crumbled into separate sultanates that also crumbled and along came invaders of all types including the Mongols.
But the Mongols were driven back by the Mamelukes who took over the land.
Then the Seljuks who were conquered by the Crusaders conquered the Mamelukes. The Crusaders converted many Arabs to Christianity and though they decimated the Jewish community, small Jewish communities remained. Then the Crusaders were ousted by the Ottomans who came to a ruined land torn apart by wars and invasions and they set up a system of serfdom which caused the Arab fellahin or peasants to sink into ever greater debts. This caused deforestation to occur as peasants sought to pay debts and herds increased beyond the capacity of the land to support them. All this caused the topsoil to wash away. And the land became barren and denuded. Without watersheds the water all flowed into the valleys and depressions creating swamps (There had always been some swamps but not THIS many.). The swamps bred typhus and malaria, which spread to the people and because of all forces the population of the land of Israel, from the 1500s to the 1830s declined.
But the Jewish population did not because the Jews did not own any land and did not have to pay the terrible taxes. The Jews all lived in the larger towns where they were small shopkeepers and scholars and lived a meager life supported by money from throughout the Jewish Diaspora. In fact the Jewish community increased as there were successive waves of immigration such as the immigration of 300 French and English rabbis in the 1200s, the immigration of refugees from Islamic persecutions in Morocco in the late 1200s, many exiles from Spain and Portugal in the 1500s, Yemenite Jews in the 1600s, Hassidic Jews from Poland in the 1700s, Mitnagdim Jews from Lithuania in the early 1800s, and smaller Sephardic movements at the same time.
Then in the 1830s a war between Egypt and the Ottomans brought large numbers of Egyptian soldiers to Palestine where they were given land. These Egyptians established many towns in the Galilee and the Judean Hills.
Then Turks settled in Jaffa conducting business. The Ottomans brought in many thousands of Syrian and Lebanese workers to build the railroads. Refugees from a failed revolution against France in Iraq, Muslim refugees from Russia, Kurds, and Bosnians settled in Israel too.
Then came the Zionists and they employed the fellahin. Therefore many tens of thousands of Arabs poured into Israel from Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, and Egypt looking for work. This immigration continued throughout the British period unabated even as the British sharply restricted Jewish immigration. Then after the war of independence Jews poured in to their homeland that they had been attached to and had longed for throughout the ages and to which they were entitled by Divine right.
SO WHO ARE THE REAL PALESTINIANS? A hybrid mixture of Syrian, Lebanese, Iraqi, and Egyptian people with strong mixes of Kurds, Circassian, Algerian, Bosnians, and Arabian, as well as a bit of remnant old blood from the mixed Arab, Greek, and Samaritan? A mish mash of people with no language, identity, or culture of their own that has no historical ties apart from migrations, to this particular land, and certainly no religious ties? A people who can claim no divine deed?
Or is it a people who have had a connection with the land, a yearning for the land and a love for the land for over 2,000 years? A people with Divine deed to the land? A people in whose very veins the blood of the land's aboriginal and other similar populations runs? And not just ANY people but the VERY people who gave the world democracy, justice, and monotheism and who liberated the human mind from the narrow confines of idolatry, a people who has been at the forefront of civilization and all liberating movements (as well as some not so liberating, but hey we all make mistakes don't we?) in the history of the world?
Which is it? WHO are the real Palestinians? WE ARE. THE JEWS ARE THE PALESTINIANS AND ENTITLED TO THE ENTIRE LAND. The hybrids who we often refer to as Palestinians may stay and live with us if they agree to live by our laws and to be loyal citizens and if they do NOTHING to threaten the hegemony of the true Palestinians to Palestine. They may have complete freedom of movement, religion, economy, and all the benefits of living in the state of the true Palestinians. But any of them who choose to threaten the hegemony of the true Palestinians over Palestine may go elsewhere. Indeed, the true Palestinians have graciously provided for any hybrids that want to live in a hybrid state. It is called Jordan, and as a tribute to the generosity of the true Palestinians it is a much larger
piece of Palestine than the piece we keep for ourselves. The true Palestinians is the ONLY people entitled to this land though. And it is only our generosity that keeps us from taking Jordan, which is also rightfully, ours.
WE ARE THE TRUE PALESTINIANS. AND WE HAVE NOTHING TO APOLOGIZE FOR!
Britain and the Jewish National Home:
Pledges and Border Changes, 1917-1923
His Majesty's Government views with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, if being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of non-Jewish communities in Palestine or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country
The Balfour Declaration
2 Nov 1917
We Arabs, especially the educated among us, look with deepest sympathy on the Zionist movement....We will wish the Jews a hearty welcome home....We are working together for a reformed and revised Near East, and our two movements complement one another. The movement is national and not imperialistic. There is room in Syria for us both. Indeed, I think that neither can be successful without the other
The Emir to Felix Frankfurter
3 March 1915
If, as may well happen, there should be created in our own lifetime by the banks of the Jordan a Jewish State under the protection of the British Crown which might comprise three of four millions of Jews, an event will have occurred in the history of the world which would form every point of view be beneficial, and would be especially in harmony with the truest interests of the British Empire
Winston Churchill
http://www.shofar.de/palestinians-e.html
Illustrated Sunday Herald
8 Feb 1920
hi thanks for your reply wasn't really looking for one however as for you stating the UN on anything is absoloutly pointless as most of the world agree UN is a corrupt and worthless body, hence the saying ''useless notions'' the united nations are and always have been pro Arab, just look at their relationship with yasser Arafat the most successful terrorist ever, and please don't tell me you don't think he was ! the world gave the ******* the noble peace prize! so popular opinion doesn't count for much now does it? also senojekips i have no problem in debating with you but as you already know im not going to change your views and your'e sure as hell can't change mine but what i do submit to you is that you only paint half a picture, we are all well aware of extreme zionism but you are wrong to portray the whole government of israel and the IDF as being so , you have no proof of that what so ever , secondly being you are so familier with the un YOU WILL THEN BE FAMILIER THAT THEY SANCTIONED ISRAEL NOT TO resettle any palestinian refugees however israel did because they gave a dam unlike the UN and the rest of the Arab world,
Well the Jews conquered the land of Israel that was given to them by Divine right. They took over from the Canaanites and other tribes who had lived there before but, instead of wiping them out, as some accounts would have it, the Jews completely absorbed those peoples.This is evidenced by the many pagan rites and rituals that were practiced in the land throughout the period of the two kingdoms. And so when the Assyrians and Babylonians came along, all they found was Jews because Canaanites and others all became part of the Jewish people. And so, in addition to Divine mandate we have the argument that we are the indigenous people of the land. Then, as the book of Kings shows, the Assyrians settled the land of Israel with all manners of Gentile peoples from southern Turkey, northern Syria, and Lebanon. These peoples converted to a rudimentary form of Judaism, which also permitted pagan rites, but over time it became more monotheistic. These people became known as Samaritans and they vied with the Jews for control of the land much as the newcomers we call Palestinians do today. Then the Greeks took over the land and settled it with Hellenized Syrians and Egyptians. And so now we had Jews, Greeks, and Samaritans all living in the land.
Then came the Romans who destroyed Jewish sovereignty but even after they did the composition of the land stayed the same - Jews, Greeks, and Samaritans. Then the Roman Empire became Christian and they imposed Christianity on the empire. The entire Greek community, the majority of the Samaritans, and a few Jews converted to Christianity.
Then came the Arabs who took the land away from the Romans (Called Byzantine by this time.) and they imposed the Jiziya and Kharaj tax. This caused most of the Greeks and almost all of the remaining Samaritans (A tiny remnant has persisted to this day.) to convert to Islam and to intermarry with the Arab newcomers. The identity of these people switched from Greek to Arab. This happened for the Arab Christians too though they retained their Christianity. But the Jews did not see themselves as Arab because the element of Jewish nationhood is an integral part of our religion whilst Islam and Christianity are religions but not nations as well.
Then the Arab Empire crumbled into separate sultanates that also crumbled and along came invaders of all types including the Mongols.
But the Mongols were driven back by the Mamelukes who took over the land.
Then the Seljuks who were conquered by the Crusaders conquered the Mamelukes. The Crusaders converted many Arabs to Christianity and though they decimated the Jewish community, small Jewish communities remained. Then the Crusaders were ousted by the Ottomans who came to a ruined land torn apart by wars and invasions and they set up a system of serfdom which caused the Arab fellahin or peasants to sink into ever greater debts. This caused deforestation to occur as peasants sought to pay debts and herds increased beyond the capacity of the land to support them. All this caused the topsoil to wash away. And the land became barren and denuded. Without watersheds the water all flowed into the valleys and depressions creating swamps (There had always been some swamps but not THIS many.). The swamps bred typhus and malaria, which spread to the people and because of all forces the population of the land of Israel, from the 1500s to the 1830s declined.
But the Jewish population did not because the Jews did not own any land and did not have to pay the terrible taxes. The Jews all lived in the larger towns where they were small shopkeepers and scholars and lived a meager life supported by money from throughout the Jewish Diaspora. In fact the Jewish community increased as there were successive waves of immigration such as the immigration of 300 French and English rabbis in the 1200s, the immigration of refugees from Islamic persecutions in Morocco in the late 1200s, many exiles from Spain and Portugal in the 1500s, Yemenite Jews in the 1600s, Hassidic Jews from Poland in the 1700s, Mitnagdim Jews from Lithuania in the early 1800s, and smaller Sephardic movements at the same time.
Then in the 1830s a war between Egypt and the Ottomans brought large numbers of Egyptian soldiers to Palestine where they were given land. These Egyptians established many towns in the Galilee and the Judean Hills.
Then Turks settled in Jaffa conducting business. The Ottomans brought in many thousands of Syrian and Lebanese workers to build the railroads. Refugees from a failed revolution against France in Iraq, Muslim refugees from Russia, Kurds, and Bosnians settled in Israel too.
Then came the Zionists and they employed the fellahin. Therefore many tens of thousands of Arabs poured into Israel from Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, and Egypt looking for work. This immigration continued throughout the British period unabated even as the British sharply restricted Jewish immigration. Then after the war of independence Jews poured in to their homeland that they had been attached to and had longed for throughout the ages and to which they were entitled by Divine right.
SO WHO ARE THE REAL PALESTINIANS? A hybrid mixture of Syrian, Lebanese, Iraqi, and Egyptian people with strong mixes of Kurds, Circassian, Algerian, Bosnians, and Arabian, as well as a bit of remnant old blood from the mixed Arab, Greek, and Samaritan? A mish mash of people with no language, identity, or culture of their own that has no historical ties apart from migrations, to this particular land, and certainly no religious ties? A people who can claim no divine deed?
Or is it a people who have had a connection with the land, a yearning for the land and a love for the land for over 2,000 years? A people with Divine deed to the land? A people in whose very veins the blood of the land's aboriginal and other similar populations runs? And not just ANY people but the VERY people who gave the world democracy, justice, and monotheism and who liberated the human mind from the narrow confines of idolatry, a people who has been at the forefront of civilization and all liberating movements (as well as some not so liberating, but hey we all make mistakes don't we?) in the history of the world?
Which is it? WHO are the real Palestinians? WE ARE. THE JEWS ARE THE PALESTINIANS AND ENTITLED TO THE ENTIRE LAND. The hybrids who we often refer to as Palestinians may stay and live with us if they agree to live by our laws and to be loyal citizens and if they do NOTHING to threaten the hegemony of the true Palestinians to Palestine. They may have complete freedom of movement, religion, economy, and all the benefits of living in the state of the true Palestinians. But any of them who choose to threaten the hegemony of the true Palestinians over Palestine may go elsewhere. Indeed, the true Palestinians have graciously provided for any hybrids that want to live in a hybrid state. It is called Jordan, and as a tribute to the generosity of the true Palestinians it is a much larger
piece of Palestine than the piece we keep for ourselves. The true Palestinians is the ONLY people entitled to this land though. And it is only our generosity that keeps us from taking Jordan, which is also rightfully, ours.
WE ARE THE TRUE PALESTINIANS. AND WE HAVE NOTHING TO APOLOGIZE FOR!
Britain and the Jewish National Home:
Pledges and Border Changes, 1917-1923
His Majesty's Government views with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, if being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of non-Jewish communities in Palestine or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country
The Balfour Declaration
2 Nov 1917
We Arabs, especially the educated among us, look with deepest sympathy on the Zionist movement....We will wish the Jews a hearty welcome home....We are working together for a reformed and revised Near East, and our two movements complement one another. The movement is national and not imperialistic. There is room in Syria for us both. Indeed, I think that neither can be successful without the other
The Emir to Felix Frankfurter
3 March 1915
If, as may well happen, there should be created in our own lifetime by the banks of the Jordan a Jewish State under the protection of the British Crown which might comprise three of four millions of Jews, an event will have occurred in the history of the world which would form every point of view be beneficial, and would be especially in harmony with the truest interests of the British Empire
Winston Churchill
http://www.shofar.de/palestinians-e.html
Illustrated Sunday Herald
8 Feb 1920
