Hey... Congrssional Motors are already throwing ads for their cars!
mmarsh
Active member
5.56
As opposed to what? The Gas guzzling monsters pushed forward by the Republicans and their terrorism-supporting oil friends in Saudi Arabia that get 50 gallons to the mile?
Sneer all you want, but remember why the Democrats won the past two elections was because Americans no longer believe the tired-old propaganda you are shoveling. We tried it your way, it was called the Bush Administration.
As opposed to what? The Gas guzzling monsters pushed forward by the Republicans and their terrorism-supporting oil friends in Saudi Arabia that get 50 gallons to the mile?
Sneer all you want, but remember why the Democrats won the past two elections was because Americans no longer believe the tired-old propaganda you are shoveling. We tried it your way, it was called the Bush Administration.
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HokieMSG
Active member
Sorry marsh, I have to support 5.56 on this. The democrats are hell bent on creating a socialist state. The more people they can get on government assistance, the tighter their grip. BTW, My concern is how the government plans on reducing the money supply after injecting all of this capital. If they don;t have a plan, then this "recession" will last a whole lot longer than anyone wants or expects. Everyone is worried about what I consider to be a normal correction in the housing market. The fact that congress chose to ignore the warnings the republicans were raising 4 years ago about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is what started this whole mess. Republicans have not helped by bailing these companies out. Government does NOT need to get involved with Banks, Mortgage companies or the Auto industry. Make all of them reorganize under Chapter 11.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Well then the Republicans failed badly at preventing this sort of scenario from playing out in the first place due to their gross incompetence in the domestic arena.
HokieMSG
Active member
Amen to that. The republicans have truly become the moderates. Conservatism needs a resurgence.
The Other Guy
Spam King
Guys, don't feed the troll...
mod edit: Do NOT disrespect other memebers
mod edit: Do NOT disrespect other memebers
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5.56X45mm
Milforum Mac Daddy
Gee..... thanks. Calling me a troll is like calling you a jerk.
mod edit: do not respond to flaming. Report the post and let the mods deal with the issue.
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mmarsh
Active member
First of all I have no problem with a semi-socialist state. I currently live in one. We Americans tend to be afraid of things we don't understand. But I enjoy the exact same liberties in a socialist state that I do in a pure capitialist one, but I live better here. That is based on my own personal experience. not America bashing as some people like to call it. Americans need to be more open-minded on this, because pure capitalism is just as bad as pure socialism as we are now discovering...
Actually the Republicans (namely Phil Gramm) caused the financial meltdown with the repeal of the Saltsman Act which prohibited banks from getting involved in Mortgage lending. That coupled with the vast deregulation policies of the Bush Administration let the foxes guard the chicken coop allowed for all sorts of shenanigans in the housing markets. So the problems were much deeper than just Fannie and Freddie who got greedy.
The auto industry got a bailout because had they done under they would have cost 10 million jobs and brought this country into a deeper financial crisis than its already in. My problem is not that the auto industry got the money, its the lack of oversight. If we are going to hand over $14 Billion than I damn well expect the government to have some say in how that money is spent. Because one thing is sure, Detriot is pretty lousy at managing money only second to making crap cars that are obsolete, of poor quality, and that nobody wants to buy.
5.56X45mm
Milforum Mac Daddy
I've was born and lived in a full socialist state... I escaped form it. I will not allow America to become one....
As for the banking industry.... you can look at the Community Reinvestment Act for the start of all of this.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
If the Democratic Party does have a plan to create a thoroughly socialist America, I don't think the Republican Party took that seriously enough to actually do a good job at home or abroad. Granted they've done a lot better with regards to Iraq (as in what to approve and what not to approve) but the housing issue was known as far back as 2005 and nothing was done to stop it because for the time being then it was generating a heck of a lot of money (that they refused to believe wasn't real). Among other things...
HokieMSG
Active member
Ahhhh. But I do understand socialism. It is contrary to the freedoms that this great country was founded on.
Sweden is following the example of Reagan. They are lowering taxes.
Regulations, while necessary are anti-capitalist.
Who then, do you explain Fannie and Freddie being directed to make high risk loans.
Again I will disagree. Let the courts not the government handle the oversight. Chapter 11 would be a good start. The issues with the auto industry are simply the fact that they have continued to build cars/trucks that the average consumer in the US does not want, and the UAW. When Gettlefinger stated flatly that he wouldn;t renegotiate the UAW contract, he pissed a lot of people off (all of them not in the UAW). The government has no business trying to run a company. That is NOT their job.
My biggest concern is the governments lack of a plan to reduce the money supply. While people think it is great to hand out all this cash. It will do nothing but keep prices inflated and drag out the recession even longer.
mmarsh
Active member
HokieMSG
1. Respectfully, I really don't think you do, and you wouldn't unless you have lived for an extended period of time in a socialist country. I moved here 10 years ago, and since then alot of misconceptions engrained in me back at home have since been dispelled. For one, most Americans equate socialism to communism, they really aren't the same. Socialism is an economic model not a political model, your freedoms have nothing to do with it. Neither does lowering taxes. You can have high taxes or low taxes in a socialist state. You can have capitalism be run by a dictator (possible but uncommon) and you can have a socialist country run as a Democracy which is the case in most common in Europe. Every 'right' you have in the USA you have here in France, with the exception of the 2nd Amendment. You are allowed to carry arms but with limits and it is not a right. Other than that its identical. You have more rights here than you do in the UK where things like freedom of speech are not guarenteed.
2. If you believe in regulations then you are not a true capitalist. A true Capitalist believes in "lassez faire" which means no regulation at all. Mind you, not being a true capitalist is a good thing. It means you have a soul.
3. The UAW contract is no different than those offered by other car manufacteurs. If you check what Nissan and Toyota are paying its exactly the same. I dont know if you are referring to the UAW $70 an hour story but that was debunked as a myth.
http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/do_auto_workers_really_make_more_than.html
The problem isnt the UAW the problem is the cars they made are garbage. The fact is Detriot got fat and lazy. It got so complacent in selling gas-guzzlers that they fell behind the innovation curve. The Japanese wisely invested into the future which is why their cars are better than ours. There is also a lack of QA in Detriot, the cars they make are bad quality cars.
1. Respectfully, I really don't think you do, and you wouldn't unless you have lived for an extended period of time in a socialist country. I moved here 10 years ago, and since then alot of misconceptions engrained in me back at home have since been dispelled. For one, most Americans equate socialism to communism, they really aren't the same. Socialism is an economic model not a political model, your freedoms have nothing to do with it. Neither does lowering taxes. You can have high taxes or low taxes in a socialist state. You can have capitalism be run by a dictator (possible but uncommon) and you can have a socialist country run as a Democracy which is the case in most common in Europe. Every 'right' you have in the USA you have here in France, with the exception of the 2nd Amendment. You are allowed to carry arms but with limits and it is not a right. Other than that its identical. You have more rights here than you do in the UK where things like freedom of speech are not guarenteed.
2. If you believe in regulations then you are not a true capitalist. A true Capitalist believes in "lassez faire" which means no regulation at all. Mind you, not being a true capitalist is a good thing. It means you have a soul.
3. The UAW contract is no different than those offered by other car manufacteurs. If you check what Nissan and Toyota are paying its exactly the same. I dont know if you are referring to the UAW $70 an hour story but that was debunked as a myth.
http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/do_auto_workers_really_make_more_than.html
The problem isnt the UAW the problem is the cars they made are garbage. The fact is Detriot got fat and lazy. It got so complacent in selling gas-guzzlers that they fell behind the innovation curve. The Japanese wisely invested into the future which is why their cars are better than ours. There is also a lack of QA in Detriot, the cars they make are bad quality cars.
HokieMSG
Active member
I mis-spoke. I was referring to economic freedom.
My concern is that the government will stifle economic freedom (the republicans have already done this with the bailout, and the democrats will continue it with universal healthcare).
My biggest beef is that the insurance companies are making economic decisions that DIRECTLY relate to the health and well being of their policyholders.
My Mom used to work at Childrens Hospital in Pittsburgh as an office manager for the GI clinic. Insurance companies directed that ALL doctors must see 10 patients per hour. How the heck can a doctor get an accurate medical history or develop a diagnosis in 6 minutes.
Never said I was. There needs to be a balance, with the emphasis on LESS regualtion.
No. Not referring to the $73 myth.
My concern is that the UAW knows that the government will bail out the big 3 and is playing chicken. The UAW refuses to make concessions and ultimately the US taxpayer will end up paying for it. That is why Chapter 11 is the way to go. Give that a chance before even considering bailing the Big 3 out. If they do bail out a company, make it a loan at the current rate the average consumer is paying.
BTW I own stock in GM. Trading at <$4 share as of this morning. :-x
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
There are some services that are simply, by their nature, not suitable for making profits and/or must be accessed by all or at least those who deserve to by qualifying. It's about finding the right balance.
Overdo it and the population gets lazy and complacent.
Not have enough and you'll have severe restrictions on social mobility and again, you won't have people beliving that their efforts will really make a difference.
Services that should not be excusively private and all citizens must pitch in to (taxes):
The Military
Police
Fire
School (Free up to high school, plus scholarships for college)
Medicine (AFFORDABLE)
Utilities (Electricity, water, gas)
Mail
I think those above just have to stay public with privately run services optional, but taxes for the government run ones still manditory.
As for the others, I guess that's what we're fighting about.
Overdo it and the population gets lazy and complacent.
Not have enough and you'll have severe restrictions on social mobility and again, you won't have people beliving that their efforts will really make a difference.
Services that should not be excusively private and all citizens must pitch in to (taxes):
The Military
Police
Fire
School (Free up to high school, plus scholarships for college)
Medicine (AFFORDABLE)
Utilities (Electricity, water, gas)
I think those above just have to stay public with privately run services optional, but taxes for the government run ones still manditory.
As for the others, I guess that's what we're fighting about.