Have the police overused deadly force? - Page 5




 
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Have the police overused deadly force?
 
March 22nd, 2006  
Marinerhodes
 
 
Have the police overused deadly force?
Good for the guy. I am just glad the woman in front of the counter didn't get silly and try to step in front of the shooter. Not to mention the fact that he fired one round before his pistol was ever leveled. Poor weapon control. Good example for a reason to carry but not a good example of control.
March 23rd, 2006  
Ted
 
 
I side with you on this one M. Sure the issue was well shown, but so many things could have gone wrong. What if he shot the lady in his uncontrolled quick draw? You prevent the robbery but replace it with something much much worse. And that is what concerns me. Some many pro-gun people seem not too overly concerned with the collateral damage....
March 23rd, 2006  
Chief Bones
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted
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many pro-gun people seem not too overly concerned with the collateral damage....
That is one of the primary complaints about present day cops and the use of deadly force ... rounds being fired with no idea of where they are aimed ... the days of the old west with bullets flying everywhere should NOT be an acceptable tactic today for ANY reason..
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Have the police overused deadly force?
March 25th, 2006  
Marinerhodes
 
 
Somehow I doubt that the police officers have no idea of where their rounds are aimed. It is unlikely that a police officer will fire a round in any direction while bringing their weapon to bear on a suspect. Not impossible, just very unlikely. The guy in the video was fast on the trigger as you could plainly see. Police officers (if I am not mistaken) are supposed to give some kind of warning shout (not to be confused with shot, there is no such thing as a warning shot in my opinion) before they discharge their weapon.
March 25th, 2006  
Chief Bones
 
 

Topic: Not accurate ...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marinerhodes
Somehow I doubt that the police officers have no idea of where their rounds are aimed. It is unlikely that a police officer will fire a round in any direction while bringing their weapon to bear on a suspect. Not impossible, just very unlikely. The guy in the video was fast on the trigger as you could plainly see. Police officers (if I am not mistaken) are supposed to give some kind of warning shout (not to be confused with shot, there is no such thing as a warning shot in my opinion) before they discharge their weapon.
Studies of Police Officer involved shootings have disclosed that in a SIGNIFICANT number of cases, the officer who discharged his/her firearm were unsure as to the number of rounds that were fired from their weapons. The officers tended to underestimate the number of rounds fired and could NOT (in many cases) reconstruct the various phases of the incident when it came to discharge of rounds. So much for 'knowing' where every round is going to end up (if you knew where your round is aimed, you could remember how many rounds were fired and be able to reconstruct the incident).

As far as a 'warning shot', there ain't no such animal anymore. A round fired into the air has to come down somewhere ... usually in a crowded neighborhood.

The only requirement is to identify yourself as a policeman.
March 26th, 2006  
Marinerhodes
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Bones
Studies of Police Officer involved shootings have disclosed that in a SIGNIFICANT number of cases, the officer who discharged his/her firearm were unsure as to the number of rounds that were fired from their weapons. The officers tended to underestimate the number of rounds fired and could NOT (in many cases) reconstruct the various phases of the incident when it came to discharge of rounds. So much for 'knowing' where every round is going to end up (if you knew where your round is aimed, you could remember how many rounds were fired and be able to reconstruct the incident).

As far as a 'warning shot', there ain't no such animal anymore. A round fired into the air has to come down somewhere ... usually in a crowded neighborhood.

The only requirement is to identify yourself as a policeman.
Many times our subconscious reacts long before our conscious does and it may not even register that we have done something, when that happens generally it is ingrained reflexes (training in most cases) that is applied. This is why many times the majority of people have gaps in their memory when it comes to life threatening situations, yet they have done exactly the right thing, or done exactly what they have been trained to do.
March 26th, 2006  
Chief Bones
 
 

Topic: Serious question ...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marinerhodes
Many times our subconscious reacts long before our conscious does and it may not even register that we have done something, when that happens generally it is ingrained reflexes (training in most cases) that is applied. This is why many times the majority of people have gaps in their memory when it comes to life threatening situations, yet they have done exactly the right thing, or done exactly what they have been trained to do.
MH
I AM NOT TRYING TO BE COMBATIVE ... I have a serious question for you.

If that is the case (having gaps .. doing the right thing ... exactly what training tells them to do) then why do many officers who have been involved in a shooting incident end up being suspended with out pay (or) even prosecuted???

The number of these incidents are on the upswing ... cops are responding with deadly force inappropriately and are being called on it ... the Blue Wall isn't the barrier today that it used to be.
March 26th, 2006  
Marinerhodes
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Bones
MH
I AM NOT TRYING TO BE COMBATIVE *snicker* sorry had to put that up there in the other thread.

If that is the case (having gaps .. doing the right thing ... exactly what training tells them to do) then why do many officers who have been involved in a shooting incident end up being suspended with out pay (or) even prosecuted???
Many, most , some, all, or only a small percentage of the already small percentage? I hadn't thought about the officers being suspended etc. When I tried to do the little research I sometimes do, I couldn't find any source that talked about the number of officers on duty vs the number involved in shooting accidents etc. So if you have a source or two of information for the entire country I would be glad to peruse it.

But otherwise the answer to your question would be "I have no clue." I am not sure what the SOP is for the various departments when it involves a shooting. I heard (hearsay) that it is customary for an officer that is involved in a shooting to be brought in off the streets until an investigation is completed. Pending investigation results as to what actions follow through.
March 27th, 2006  
Chief Bones
 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marinerhodes
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But otherwise the answer to your question would be "I have no clue." I am not sure what the SOP is for the various departments when it involves a shooting. I heard (hearsay) that it is customary for an officer that is involved in a shooting to be brought in off the streets until an investigation is completed. Pending investigation results as to what actions follow through.
The information I referred was from the review of a whole lot of net-surfing of articles dealing with police involved shootings ... I am aware of the universal procedure of taking a police officer off the street and having him/her work 'the desk' until investigations are completed ... what I was referring to were officers who were found to have violated procedures and were suspended without pay and officers that violated procedures badly enough to end up in court facing charges.

I am sorry to say I seem to have nothing but free time lately for surfing ... I am presently unemployed and drawing Unemployment Insurance Benefits.
March 27th, 2006  
Marinerhodes
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Bones
The information I referred was from the review of a whole lot of net-surfing of articles dealing with police involved shootings ... I am aware of the universal procedure of taking a police officer off the street and having him/her work 'the desk' until investigations are completed ... what I was referring to were officers who were found to have violated procedures and were suspended without pay and officers that violated procedures badly enough to end up in court facing charges.

I am sorry to say I seem to have nothing but free time lately for surfing ... I am presently unemployed and drawing Unemployment Insurance Benefits.
No need to apologize. We all get down on our luck sometimes.

The net surfing happen to involve all shootings where police are involved or just those where the police officers violated procedures etc? In your perusal of online articles you are aware i am sure that not all the shootings make the online news. Many smaller town papers don't have the manpower to host an internet website.

If you can correlate the data for Number of shootings compared to number of shootings where officers were in violation of one thing or another I believe you will find the numbers are not as drastic as you think. Unfortunately I don't have the time lol. Otherwise I may be tempted to do that piece of research myself.