Have the police overused deadly force? - Page 3




 
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Have the police overused deadly force?
 
March 15th, 2006  
Marinerhodes
 
 
Have the police overused deadly force?
Quote:
Originally Posted by major liability
Make prisons like that and you'll have a lot more folks shooting back at the cops rather than surrendering like little bitches.
Somehow I think there will be fewer people willing to commit the crime. Less people in trouble means less people in a position to shoot back etc.

If that is the way you feel then I feel badly if a police officer ever has to take you down. I feel for him because in his line of work taking a life is the exception, not the rule.
March 15th, 2006  
Whispering Death
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marinerhodes
Somehow I think there will be fewer people willing to commit the crime. Less people in trouble means less people in a position to shoot back etc.
Yeah, except even in Texas where we have an express lane in our death row we still have people committing murders so that logic doesn't really work.
March 15th, 2006  
Marinerhodes
 
 
Not sure how long people sit on death row but consider all the "amenities" even they are given.
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Have the police overused deadly force?
March 15th, 2006  
Ted
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marinerhodes
Pay them a small wage (the monies given out free for TV and education and other amenities they should not have in my opinion).

As for preventing a crime? When was the last time you stopped someone from doing something they were determined to do?

Making the penalty for a crime so horrendous as to discourage someone from even thinking about it is the only way to help cut down on the crime rate. Not that it will prevent crime but it may act as a deterrent to those contemplating commiting a crime.
But all the stats show that deterrence doesn't work. As WD said, death-row is a multi million dollar industry and only growing.

I do agree with you that you can't prevent a crime from happening. But I do think that it is a sociological consequence of a harsh society. How come Holland or most Scandinavian countries don't experience such a broad scala of crime? Sure we have murders, but not even in the same scale as Texas or New York alone.

Whether you want to correct or punish in prison is something everybody has to decide for himself. If I was inside I wish I had something to return to when I came out. I want to give that to the present generation of inmates as well.
Finally.... How is the work rewarded in the States. Overhere inmates make very little money and they can buy priviliges. Misconduct gets you locked up and you can't earn money. Without money you can't afford cable or other things. So it is very quiet most of the time on the inside.
March 15th, 2006  
Marinerhodes
 
 
The deterrence works for me. I don't want to spend 1 minute, let alone a year or more, in jail or prison for stealing or any other crime. Here in the US people have claimed they need/want more freedoms, more liberties to do what they wish. By giving those freedoms you allow for more of an "acceptable" deviation from social behavior as opposed to, let us say, 20 years ago. This leads to those of a dubious nature willing and ready to take advantage of the freedoms and liberties. How to prevent people from doing so? You can not. But you can set stiff penalties and punishments to deter people from doing so.

Societal values differ greatly from one region of the world to the next. Look at Chinese culture and societal values vs American culture and societal values. Comparing the two and expecting both to be the same is somewhat naive.

Tell me why you think the crime is so low in your country? Is it because of the culture or the penalties? Perhaps it is a combination of both? Answer that and you have the answer to just about any question where you compare one society and culture to another.
March 15th, 2006  
Ted
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marinerhodes

Societal values differ greatly from one region of the world to the next. Look at Chinese culture and societal values vs American culture and societal values. Comparing the two and expecting both to be the same is somewhat naive.

Tell me why you think the crime is so low in your country? Is it because of the culture or the penalties? Perhaps it is a combination of both? Answer that and you have the answer to just about any question where you compare one society and culture to another.
I think crime is so low in Holland, at least compared to the US, because of a few socio-cultural values we have here. We (or at least I) take pride in trying to bridge the gap between rich and poor even if this means high taxes. Because of an elaborate system of welfare combined with study programs and work programs, being poor isn't a way of life. We offer an alternative route a way out. We don't have ghetto's and in general, being born poor doesn't mean you'll stay poor.

Crime in Holland is mostly because of thugs evening the score with thugs. Murder is often used to even a score or for power gain and not because a stick-up went wrong. I am not sure whether I explained it clearly.... If not I'll read it in your comment and try my best.
March 16th, 2006  
Marinerhodes
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted
I think crime is so low in Holland, at least compared to the US, because of a few socio-cultural values we have here. We (or at least I) take pride in trying to bridge the gap between rich and poor even if this means high taxes. Because of an elaborate system of welfare combined with study programs and work programs, being poor isn't a way of life. We offer an alternative route a way out. We don't have ghetto's and in general, being born poor doesn't mean you'll stay poor.

Crime in Holland is mostly because of thugs evening the score with thugs. Murder is often used to even a score or for power gain and not because a stick-up went wrong. I am not sure whether I explained it clearly.... If not I'll read it in your comment and try my best.
That was my main point. There is a large difference in what is acceptable right and wrong behavior between cultures.

America has an elaborate system as well. Free clinics, grants, student loans, tuition aid, all sorts of programs to help someone better themselves. Most choose to not take advantage because there is an "easier' alternative.
March 16th, 2006  
Ted
 
 
Quote:
America has an elaborate system as well. Free clinics, grants, student loans, tuition aid, all sorts of programs to help someone better themselves. Most choose to not take advantage because there is an "easier' alternative.


I just don't believe that so many choose a life of crime because it is more convinient. Granted, some do (I don't know any percentage on this one) but for most it has become a way of life. Most are smart enough to calculate the risk of a stick-up or robbery. Why do so many run the risk, because they have no alternative. If it was easier, why is our crime rate so much lower? Is it because a thug overhere has higher moral or a better work-ethos then the ones over in America? I doubt it.... bit I haven't got the answer though, just a hunch.
March 16th, 2006  
Marinerhodes
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted

I just don't believe that so many choose a life of crime because it is more convinient. Granted, some do (I don't know any percentage on this one) but for most it has become a way of life. Most are smart enough to calculate the risk of a stick-up or robbery. Why do so many run the risk, because they have no alternative. If it was easier, why is our crime rate so much lower? Is it because a thug overhere has higher moral or a better work-ethos then the ones over in America? I doubt it.... bit I haven't got the answer though, just a hunch.
I am sure that if you do a little research that you can find government programs in place to help those in need. There are many city and state programs to help those in need as well. I feel that a person is responsible for their actions.

I am adamant, my mind can not be changed: There is no situation so bad that a person can not better themselves through legal and acceptable means. That goes from the highest to the lowest.

I used to live in the woods in a little shack made of plywood, slept on the ground in sleeping bags. Myself, 4 brothers and a sister along with my stepdad and mother. I won't bore you with all the details of day to day life. Suffice it to say my stepdad did all in his power to get us out of the "homeless" state. I am not sure of all he did, but he did make use of the various programs to be sure that we all were provided for and eventually we were able to move into a house and resume a "normal" life. I was raised financially poor, in an abusive home, that is putting it mildly. It would have been easy for some or all family members to turn into degenerates and a life of crime. But stepdad did the right thing and raised us as best he could. Unfortunately him and my mother were not married for long. But he is the person that I model my life after. He has very strong morals and values and kept trying to get back on top even after he had been kicked down.

I have risen above that and DARE others to say that they can not do the same. It is not society that is at fault, it is the individual person's choice to be the way they are. So anyone that says they are this way because of mom and dad or because society etc, I call bullsh**. I say they are that way because they decided it was easier than making an actual bonafide effort to better themselves.

When I say easier, I mean it is easier to go rob a liquor store, or a bank, or any numberr of things, than to spend the time to educate themselves at school, or get a legitimate job, etc. You are talking in most cases 3+ years before they can get out there and make a good go of it. Many people decide it isn't worth the time or effort. They decide it is easier to go spend 10 minutes robbing or raping or whatever it is than to spend a much longer amount of time doing it the legal way.

I apologize for the rant. Statements like that, made by Ted, above get my blood boiling a bit and really irritate me. People nowadays seem to refuse to take any responsibility for their actions and there are others that let them get away with it.
March 17th, 2006  
Ted
 
 
Quote:
I apologize for the rant. Statements like that, made by Ted, above get my blood boiling a bit and really irritate me. People nowadays seem to refuse to take any responsibility for their actions and there are others that let them get away with it.
I agree with you on that. But I guess that I take into account that not everyone has the high morals, the determination and the brains to sit that one thru. The way I look at your statement is that you set the bar real high and everybody who can't jump over it do that because of lack of effort. I can't see it like that. Maybe it's because I am a softy, I don't know, but I don't to qualify a grey area according to my specific standard. I hold your stepdad's effort in th highest regard and it shows a very strong character. But not everybody has what it takes......