Has the lesson of Holocaust been forgotten???




 
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Has the lesson of Holocaust been forgotten???
 
March 27th, 2006  
Chief Bones
 
 

Topic: Has the lesson of Holocaust been forgotten???


Has the lesson of Holocaust been forgotten???
With the rewriting of history and the advent of a ‘politically correct‘ society, have the lessons of the holocaust been forgotten?

We now have whole generations of young people that were NOT alive at the end of WWII … some of these children (namely the skinheads and members of the ‘New Generation Nazis‘) , do NOT believe that the holocaust even happened … even when they are shown photographic evidence along with written statements of some of the survivors, they all call the evidence contrived and made up (shades of Hollywood).

We are now embroiled in a war in the Middle East and there is an element of our society who believe that we should completely stay out of the one of the major arguments that are raging in that part of the world … the biggest complaint has to do with the confrontation between Israel and the Palestinian people. While the real argument between Palestinians and Israelis has to do with the survival of Israel, the argument goes deeper than it first seems.

The real hatreds go back to the Crusades. Muslims, Christians and Jews have been intertwined in these arguments seemingly from the dawn of time. Whether or not we want to acknowledge it, the Holocaust has caused Jews everywhere to stake a claim to a real homeland and nothing short of their annihilation will ever change this.

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE LESSONS OF THE HOLOCAUST HAVE BEEN FORGOTTEN … IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THERE WILL EVER BE A TIME WHEN PALASTINIANS AND ISRAELIS WILL LIVE SIDE-BY-SIDE IN PEACE … IS IT POSSIBLE THAT 1,000s OF YEARS OF HISTORY CAN BE PUT BEHIND THE FACTIONS IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND THE REGION SETTLE INTO AN ERA OF PEACE???

If yes - why?
If not - why not?

I am truly interested in what our members opinions are and what they have to say about this subject and realize that feelings WILL DEFINITELY run high on this issue.

In this case, personal opinions are welcome …please do NOT take personal exception to other’s beliefs … I believe this is a major problem with the various factions along the road to peace … also please do NOT throw bombs NOR call other countries names when making your opinions known (the factions involved are doing enough of that).
March 27th, 2006  
Ted
 
 
I think that there will come a time of peace in that region, but it will take considerable time. The Israeli cannot (imo) use the argument of the Shoah as a claim to the region.
The holocaust is not forgotten, but it is a unilateral issue in that region. It happened to the Jews in Europe and the Europe offered them a place in the Middle East. The Palestinians were suddenly faced with boat loads of Jews that drove them of their lands, based on a claim of a book. What is the bible to a Palestinian? The holocaust did not and does not concern them, but it is used as a motive to put them in refugee camps for the last 50 years.
March 27th, 2006  
LeEnfield
 
 
I feel that many people find it hard to believe that any thing so inhumane could have taken place during what can be classed as these modern times. You only have to look at the British historian that got three years in an Austrian jail for denying it ever happened. As WW2 recedes in to history and people die off then history also fades as well.
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Has the lesson of Holocaust been forgotten???
March 27th, 2006  
Missileer
 
 
The holocaust memory will never die as long as one Jew is alive. They, as a people, made a vow of never again so they will keep the revisionists in check. The younger the World population becomes, the less impact the horror has on them. No modern day author or horror movie maker can produce a film as terrible as the reality of the death camps. Mengele alone surpassed "The Frankenstein Monster" as far as I'm concerned.

I don't really connect the NAZIs' and Palestinians' motivations in dealing with the Jewish people. To the NAZIs, they were victims, to the Muslim world, they are an invading force to be reckoned with. I think there will eventually be a standoff but not a stable peace, when Israel gives the Palestinians a foot, they want a mile, which is probably what I would do in their place. But Palestinians will never have a country as long as the Hamas and terrorist organizations speak for them.
March 27th, 2006  
Chief Bones
 
 
Out of all of your comments, the closest one to my opinion is the one that says that there will eventually be a standoff but not a stable peace ... many residents of the region would be ecstatic just to have an 'uneasy' peace as long as it IS a peace.

With the daily bombings and terrorist acts being carried out against the 'innocents', an uneasy peace would be heaven. The policies being carried out by GW and his administration is NOT helping to resolve the problems which have led to the rapid growth in terrorists ... as a matter of fact ... some of these policies have created more terrorists than faced us pre-9/11.

It is my personal belief that the holocaust created a deeper divide than many people realized ... 6 million + deaths is not something which is easy to forget for any group of people.

REMEMBER ... WE OWE OUR OWN EXISTANCE TO A GROUP OF OUR FOREFATHERS WHO LEFT ENGLAND JUST TO ESCAPE RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION. THINK HOW MUCH STRONGER THE FEELINGS WOULD BE IF YOU WERE TRYING TO ESCAPE THE COMPLETE ANNIALATION OF YOUR PEOPLE ... THIS IS WHERE ISRAEL IS TODAY.
March 28th, 2006  
Ted
 
 
This is also what makes them so inflexible in their negotiations (recent developments left aside...). They use the holocaust as their "leid motiv", but this motive is of no value to a third party. They, in this case Palestinians, have had no dealing with the Jews for the past 2000 years! And boom they loose their lands because the other party was wronged by yet another party.
So nobody forgets the Holocaust, but I reckon it should not be in the discussion of the situation and the road to peace.
March 28th, 2006  
Chief Bones
 
 

Topic: Never again .............


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted
This is also what makes them so inflexible in their negotiations (recent developments left aside...). They use the holocaust as their "leid motiv", but this motive is of no value to a third party. They, in this case Palestinians, have had no dealing with the Jews for the past 2000 years! And boom they loose their lands because the other party was wronged by yet another party.
So nobody forgets the Holocaust, but I reckon it should not be in the discussion of the situation and the road to peace.
In the real world, Palestinians and Israelis are going to have to set down and rationally discuss ways to achieve peace ... when there is a fart (holocaust) in the same room, it will color every bit of the negotiations if it is completely ignored. When this one single event is so central to who the Israelis have become, the second party (Palestinians) are sure to fail when they don't take into account what spurs the other party in their decisions.

Where the real fault lies isn't just the fact that the holocaust is central to the character of Israel, the real fault was the Palestinian decision to bring Hamas (terrorist group in favor of wiping Israel from the map) to the forefront of the new Palestinian government. Israelis remember the holocaust and with the advent of Hamas inclusion in the new government they see another possible attempt at another holocaust ... remember ... ALL JEWS EVERYWHERE ALL SAY THE SAME THING ... NEVER AGAIN.

SOOOO - how how can you possibly believe that it "should not be in the discussion of the situation and the road to peace" ... it is there whether people wish it were or not ... and ... you can NOT ignore it.
March 28th, 2006  
Ted
 
 
Oh come on now Chief! When the Jews threw out the Palestinians in the end of the '40s and '50s, there wasn't even a Hamas. When did Hamas come to life?
To say that the real fault lays with the Palestinians with Hamas is just too easy. The Israeli have their elected Likud and the Palestinians have their elected Hamas. They can drink eachothers blood and will probably not get even close to a stable peace.... The fault lays with both parties at the moment, both use terror, bombs and violence.. It is just such a bloody shame that Yithzak was shot by a radical! What would the situation would have looked like? Certainly no Hamas to lead the Palestinias.... but we'll never know will we?
March 29th, 2006  
Chief Bones
 
 
What planet do you live on - do you actually live in the real world???

The election of Hamas to the new Palestinian Government has fanned the flames with Napalm (forget gasoline). Until Hamas disavows the stated goal of destroying Israel, Jews everywhere will view this situation as another possible holocaust in the making. All the rest of the world can understand this situation without having to refer to a bunch of charts - THEY GET IT.

WHICH PART OF THIS SITUATION DON'T YOU GET???

I agree that there has been wrong on both sides of this issue ... however ...

You come across (in your posts) as though you have some kind of animus towards this situation (I may be wrong and if I am I apologise) ... but ... you don't have to support either side to understand the dynamics of this situation ... whether you back the Palestinians or the Iraqis, peace will be impossible until Hamas renounces their stated goals against Israel. This seems to be the main sticking point in any agreement.
March 29th, 2006  
Ted
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Bones
You come across (in your posts) as though you have some kind of animus towards this situation (I may be wrong and if I am I apologise) ... but ... you don't have to support either side to understand the dynamics of this situation ... whether you back the Palestinians or the Iraqis, peace will be impossible until Hamas renounces their stated goals against Israel. This seems to be the main sticking point in any agreement.
As I recall Chief, the question was whether the Holocaust was forgotten. The Jews haven't and I reckon that Hamas is also painfully aware of this piece of history.
My last post was aimed at laying the blame with the Palestinians and Hamas. Hamas is a direct result of a very harsh policy by the Israeli. In 1987 they founded this organization as to be militant against the militant. It has been an action = reaction kind of thing for decades. The same goes for both Intifada's. Just to say the Palestinians started it, means leaving out half of the cause.....

I agree with you that Hamas isn't the right partner for peace talks. We'll see how things go now when Kadima is the largest political party in Israel and ready to talk about peace.