That hard question about unmanned equiptment




 
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March 23rd, 2015  
Yossarian
 
 

Topic: That hard question about unmanned equiptment


So I have been pondering this idea that is the quagmire of unmanned equipment serving along side the armed forces.

In the 90's we were stunned by self driving cars, soon to be revealed was a self driving HUMVEE in the early 2000's.

Now the question I have for the forums here is a question not just the military, but civil authorities and perhaps all of the general population would be facing one day in one form or another.

But as an armed services member how would you feel working in close conditions with an %100 autonomous robot working alongside you?

From supporting roles to combat missions. The idea was again demonstrated in last years Pacific RIMPACT exercise, interest of exploring unmanned equipment operating at a personal level with servicemen and women is being discussed for the future and explored. It's only logical to to suggest that eventually these will include man sized platforms capable of supporting or even combat roles right along side their human counter parts.
My real point of focus is for members who obviously have military experience , how would you feel having a robot doing your job along side you?

How you feel if that man sized robot carried a weapon?

Honestly like it or not, as long as the Congressional Defense committee is around, it's more of an eventuality at this point, but the questions will still need to be answered, whether now or 20 or 30 years for now.

And once the military picks up the idea, make no mistake, the private industry will not be very far behind.

Thoughts?

-Yo.
March 23rd, 2015  
tetvet
 
When I served in Vietnam I sometimes felt that I was serving with robots or dinosaurs in some of the Officers and NCO's we had dumped on us , I kid you not we had a Platoon Sgt. that I saw once and that was when he was rotating home , he was known as the invisible man .
March 23rd, 2015  
BritinAfrica
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
So I have been pondering this idea that is the quagmire of unmanned equipment serving along side the armed forces.

In the 90's we were stunned by self driving cars, soon to be revealed was a self driving HUMVEE in the early 2000's.

Now the question I have for the forums here is a question not just the military, but civil authorities and perhaps all of the general population would be facing one day in one form or another.

But as an armed services member how would you feel working in close conditions with an %100 autonomous robot working alongside you?

From supporting roles to combat missions. The idea was again demonstrated in last years Pacific RIMPACT exercise, interest of exploring unmanned equipment operating at a personal level with servicemen and women is being discussed for the future and explored. It's only logical to to suggest that eventually these will include man sized platforms capable of supporting or even combat roles right along side their human counter parts.
My real point of focus is for members who obviously have military experience , how would you feel having a robot doing your job along side you?

How you feel if that man sized robot carried a weapon?

Honestly like it or not, as long as the Congressional Defense committee is around, it's more of an eventuality at this point, but the questions will still need to be answered, whether now or 20 or 30 years for now.

And once the military picks up the idea, make no mistake, the private industry will not be very far behind.

Thoughts?

-Yo.
I found it scary that RAF pilots based based at Creech near Las Vegas were piloting UAV's in Aghanistan.

In 1957 Duncan Sandy's, Churchills son in law released a paper stating the days of piloted aircraft were over. Which led to the scrapping of quite a few potentially good aircraft under development.

An ex Royal Artillery army officer he had as much idea about aircraft as my German Shepherd.

It amazes me why those in government don't ask the people who fly them.
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March 23rd, 2015  
brinktk
 
 
With all the maintenance we already do on our complicated systems...I just look at is an additional workload on the force, that will require constant tooling, tinkering, and repair...which will take precious training time away from my soldiers. The more complicated the system...the more of a certainty that things will go wrong.
March 23rd, 2015  
Yossarian
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brinktk
With all the maintenance we already do on our complicated systems...I just look at is an additional workload on the force, that will require constant tooling, tinkering, and repair...which will take precious training time away from my soldiers. The more complicated the system...the more of a certainty that things will go wrong.

Still I feel despite obvious draw backs the sheer moment of the industry combined with the old formula of acquiring new equipment. It will all boil down like it has in the past.

A few voices screaming loud enough to get their way in the decision making process. And it seems these days any potential government contractor only has to label something "economically cost efficient." Even when it isn't and the government will sign off on it.

I don't see unmanned equipment being a large portion of our armed services but it's expansion in roles and advancement in efficiency will continue to grow regardless of most people's feeling at this moment.

As with any new development. we would be wise to over rely on it.

Ala F 4 Phantom's without guns in Vietnam.
March 23rd, 2015  
JOC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brinktk
With all the maintenance we already do on our complicated systems...I just look at is an additional workload on the force, that will require constant tooling, tinkering, and repair...which will take precious training time away from my soldiers. The more complicated the system...the more of a certainty that things will go wrong.
This is true constant software - firmware updates, hardware upgrades, retrofits, etc. it's a non-stop process with nearly all our weapons systems. The B-52 still flies > 40 years later. This is why a plane like the F-15 is still a top notch aircraft and why the Abrams is still a top notch tank. There are splendid success stories like the F-22 Raptor the worlds best fighter (yes it's very costly) which is actually 1/2 way to becoming a robot, however with a human in control ultimately. I realize drones have a limited amount of ability to react to the environment on their own. However I remain leery of a weapons system that doesn't allow for a human to ultimately make the decision.
March 24th, 2015  
Kesse81
 
I think the future of robots in the military lies primarily in the collection of intelligence. I doubt that you can abolish such a perfect fighting machine as a human being is.
I would not trust a robot - itīs electronics and therefore vulnerable on many more levels than a human. Furthermore, I donīt think that a machine will ever be able to achieve consciousness like us or what I think is more important as a human being - our so-called sixth sense. It has saved my bum several times
March 27th, 2015  
Remington 1858
 
 

Topic: unmanned equipment


Replacing men with machines always raises emotional issues. However, the process is probably inevitable. Whatever the cost of a machine, it represents a one-time purchase and except for maintenance costs is far cheaper than having to recruit, train, retain and support a person.
For many years now, the U.S. military pay bill contained more funds for retired personnel than for those on active duty. There are costs related to military dependents such as medical expenses. The U.S. Veterans Administration is a very expensive establishment. An all volunteer force means that you have a guy showing up at the recruiting station with a wife and two kids. You are hiring an entire family! And they will have to be provided for during the entire military career.
In some countries such as Japan, there is great difficulty recruiting personnel because of declining birth rates or competition in the private sector.
Machines do not require any of the previously mentioned outlays. When it breaks and you can't fix it, it is scrapped. Machines do not eat, sleep, drink or shit. They do not get drunk, get arrested, have family issues, go absent without leave, cause a pregnancy by commission or omission.
Best of all, they always do exactly as they are instructed to do.
As autonomous weapons systems become available, even if at first, they have a diminished capability over a human system, they will become an accepted part of the advanced militaries. This is the Rise of the Machines.
March 27th, 2015  
Yossarian
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remington 1858
Replacing men with machines always raises emotional issues. However, the process is probably inevitable. Whatever the cost of a machine, it represents a one-time purchase and except for maintenance costs is far cheaper than having to recruit, train, retain and support a person.
For many years now, the U.S. military pay bill contained more funds for retired personnel than for those on active duty. There are costs related to military dependents such as medical expenses. The U.S. Veterans Administration is a very expensive establishment. Then there are costs related to dependents.
In some countries, there is great difficulty recruiting personnel because of declining birth rates or competition in the private sector.
Machines do not require any of the previously mentioned outlays. When it breaks and you can't fix it, it is scrapped. Machines do not eat, sleep, drink or shit. They do not get drunk, get arrested, have family issues, go absent without leave, cause a pregnancy by commission or omission.
Best of all, they always do exactly as they are instructed to do.
As autonomous weapons systems become available, even if at first, they have a diminished capability over a human system, they will become an accepted part of the advanced militaries. This is the Rise of the Machines.

My question to current military members is this I feel is an eventuality, these technologies are rapidly advancing to the point where we may not yet have a true grasp of what they one day may do and will do.

My question for our servicemen now, is how would you feel working next to an armed machine everyday that thinks on it's own?
March 27th, 2015  
MikeP
 
 
Impossible question.
Can't know how I would feel until it happened.
It's a complete unknown and pretty far off for an independently thinking machine being turned loose anywhere. Very far off, the more I think about it.
 


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