Hamass Wins Landslide Election

MontyB said:
Yes well a monocular view may lead to that belief but it is becoming apparent that if you cant come up with an argument we can always fall back on the leftist/liberal accusations. Seriously your entire post is pure guess work and supposition as to what so called "left wingers" think and quite frankly I am not sure you could spot a "liberal" if you tripped over one in the dark.
I fall back on it because its true, especially with Hitler.

You accuse me of bringing this up when I can't come up with an argument, when twice already(maybe more) you have sidetrack the thread (this is one of them) because you can't come up with a counter argument, thats funny.

And yes I know you keep saying that you are a moderate and all that, but almost evrytime you take a position of debate here your views almost always come from left field. Its like the girl who says she love you, but she is sleeping with all the other guys in the neighborhood. In fact she keeps telling you she loves you, she tells you that all the time, but does she really mean it.

Doc.S said:
Time for all to smell the dead roses and get up from those god damn dreamlands they are living in and recognize that we ladies and gentlemen are standing right on the threshold to our own cultures extermination from the inside outside in.
Nice to see you again Doc!

As always alot of your statements are right on.
 
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So long as Hamas is not given the option of destroying the Democratic process from happening in the future, I expect that the Palestinians might make less controversial choices as time goes on. That or, like I said, maybe Hamas (by some miracle) tones it down and adapt itself. Maybe both. Spain is an example of a nation who's political system has evolved from a Fascist state under Franco to being a lot better today. It demonstrates that it certainly could happen. Also, Turkey is an example of a Muslim nation that is maintaining a pretty free system.
 
What the h...?

MontyB said:
Godwin's Law
[Usenet] “As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.” There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. However there is also a widely- recognized codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin's Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful.
:bang: :sorry: :eek:fftopic:
I don't know what the hell you're talking about. (It has nothing to do with my original post).

I MADE A SIMPLE STATEMENT THAT YOU STILL HAVEN'T RESPONDED TO.
Chief Bones said:
................. Hitler's platform was that those 'dirty Jews' were to blame for all of Germany's ills.

Hamas has played the very same race card to come to power - "The dirty Jews are to blame for the Palestinian people's problems".

WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE? <How bout responding to my straightforward question>

Sorry about the color fireworks - used it to point out important info - Monty doesn't seem to understand straightforward English so highlighted important parts of the post so he couldn't say he didn't understand what I was trying to say.
 
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gladius said:
I fall back on it because its true, especially with Hitler.

You accuse me of bringing this up when I can't come up with an argument, when twice already(maybe more) you have sidetrack the thread (this is one of them) because you can't come up with a counter argument, thats funny.
I am sorry but it is incredibly difficult to reply to your posts when they are primarily made up of a mish mash of bible stories and right wing philosphy and yet you constantly reply to assert that you are right while never providing a factual base for your argument.

Incidently the fact that there is a counter argument there but you refuse to acknowledge it doesnt remove the fact that it exists.

And yes I know you keep saying that you are a moderate and all that, but almost evrytime you take a position of debate here your views almost always come from left field. Its like the girl who says she love you, but she is sleeping with all the other guys in the neighborhood. In fact she keeps telling you she loves you, she tells you that all the time, but does she really mean it.
On the contrary I am moderate because some of my views are left wing, others are right wing and a bunch of them are centerist. The fact that you are far right just just pushes everyone else to the left it doesnt actually make them left.

[B said:
Chief Bones[/b]]I don't know what the hell you're talking about. (It has nothing to do with my original post).

I MADE A SIMPLE STATEMENT THAT YOU STILL HAVEN'T RESPONDED TO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Bones
................. Hitler's platform was that those 'dirty Jews' were to blame for all of Germany's ills.

Hamas has played the very same race card to come to power - "The dirty Jews are to blame for the Palestinian people's problems".

WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE? <How bout responding to my straightforward question>



Sorry about the color fireworks - used it to point out important info - Monty doesn't seem to understand straightforward English so highlighted important parts of the post so he couldn't say he didn't understand what I was trying to say.


Oh it was a question?
Sorry I though it was your signature being in colour and at the bottom of the post and all.

I was on the verge of hitting the report button as a personal "assault" but I figured nah I will give you a response its easier. So here it is :-
Go read "teds" post on why using the Hitler card is so inappropriate I dont expect that it will sink in and I am not about to waste a day putting colours to it but it is spot on and it is the simplest explaination available.

[B said:
godofthunder9010[/b]]So long as Hamas is not given the option of destroying the Democratic process from happening in the future, I expect that the Palestinians might make less controversial choices as time goes on. That or, like I said, maybe Hamas (by some miracle) tones it down and adapt itself. Maybe both. Spain is an example of a nation who's political system has evolved from a Fascist state under Franco to being a lot better today. It demonstrates that it certainly could happen. Also, Turkey is an example of a Muslim nation that is maintaining a pretty free system.

I think you are 100% correct.

See dont say I am not an agreeable sort.
:)

 
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MontyB said:
I am sorry but it is incredibly difficult to reply to your posts when they are primarily made up of a mish mash of bible stories and right wing philosphy and yet you constantly reply to assert that you are right while never providing a factual base for your argument.
Oh such harsh accusation coming from you, perhaps you are losing the argument, so you start to now resort to all kinds of false accusations.

My replies here had facts and logical reasoning to back it up. If ever I insist I am right it is only because of the facts, logical deduction, or examples from history (Hitler!). You insist you are right without any of these.

Would you like me to show you where it happen or did you just happen to ignore it. You may want to look at post #15 again.


Incidently the fact that there is a counter argument there but you refuse to acknowledge it doesnt remove the fact that it exists.

What counter arguement did you provide? You provided none and you had none. All you did was try to distract the issue by introducting the a non-issue by invoking like godwins law on the Hitler stuff and now accusing me of all kinds of stuff while you dodge the real issue. You do this everytime you have no logic to reply with. Did you think we weren't going to recognize this (this is a typical left-wing tactic btw).

On the contrary I am moderate because some of my views are left wing, others are right wing and a bunch of them are centerist. The fact that you are far right just just pushes everyone else to the left it doesnt actually make them left.

You "say" you have centrist and even right-wing views, but your post to these views haven't been in porportion to what you are saying, something doesn't match here...hmmm. In fact something smells rotten, and it isn't in Denmark, rather its somewhere over where you live.

If you really have more centrist views and ight wing views, then you better start posting some, not just token ones either to fool us into thinking you actualy have some.

So far you views have been 90% left so that makes you left wing. I think you are just saying you are a moderate as to fool people that your left-wing views are not actually left wing. But really who is going to be fooled? It has the same effect if I were to tell people here that I'm a actually a democrat. it quacks like a duck...







 
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How About Answering My Question!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Godwin's Law
[Usenet] “As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.” There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. However there is also a widely- recognized codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin's Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful.


Chief Bones said:
:bang: :sorry: :eek:fftopic:
I don't know what the hell you're talking about. (It has nothing to do with my original post).
Or any recent post as near as I can tell.

I MADE A SIMPLE STATEMENT THAT YOU STILL HAVEN'T RESPONDED TO.

DAMN BUT ARE YOU EVER DENSE - I'LL TRY ONE MORE TIME.....

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
A G A I N ! ! ! !

(HITLER)
................. Hitler's platform was that those 'dirty Jews' were to blame for all of Germany's ills. (HE WON ELECTION).

(HAMAS)
Hamas has played the very same race card to come to power - "The dirty Jews are to blame for the Palestinian people's problems". (HAMAS WON ELECTION).

This was the primary reason Hamas accumulated so many votes - they pandered to the prejudices of the Palestinian people.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

(Since you had a major problem with a little color coding - this is the only part I left color in and for some obvious reasons).

WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HITLER AND THE HAMAS?
(They BOTH blame the Jews for all of their problems)


<How bout responding to my straightforward question AND STOP DODGING by responding with a simple straight forward answer.>

Obfuscating an issue is not the same as responding to the spirit of a discussion or question.

Are you afraid of answering a simple question?

Obfuscation - to muddle; confuse; bewilder. (In case you wondered).

As far as my signature - I'm proud of my signature. I should have reported your post to the MODS but I choose to ignore your attempted put-down. Please (for once) try to act civilly - it has been in short supply with some of your recent posts.
 
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Chief Bones said:
WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HITLER AND THE HAMAS?
(They BOTH blame the Jews for all of their problems)

There are very numberous ammounts of significant differences but just because there are does not mean that comparisons in certain aspects can not be made, as you have pointed out.

Saying Hamas=hitler is misunderstanding the situation but saying that there are no parallels between the lessons learned from WW2 and what is happening in Palestine right now is being even more blind.
 
Very well put

Whispering Death said:
There are very numberous ammounts of significant differences but just because there are does not mean that comparisons in certain aspects can not be made, as you have pointed out.

Saying Hamas=hitler is misunderstanding the situation but saying that there are no parallels between the lessons learned from WW2 and what is happening in Palestine right now is being even more blind.

The point you just articulated was the point that I was trying to make with MontyB. The parallel was Hamas's hatred and blame of everything Jewish and their use of Palestinian hatred of the Jewish state of Israel to garner Palestinian votes. Along with this comparison, you can also make a comparison of citizens selecting an anti-jewish group to represent them.

MontyB would have us believe that there are NO comparisons with Hitler's rise to power and Hamas's participation in a Palestinian government and to even raise Hitler when discussing the situation in the middle east is counter productive.

Nothing is further from the truth.
Hamas continues to fuel the fire with terrorist suicide bombers and continues to advocate the end of the Jewish state (Hitler tried to wipe out all Jews while Hamas's aims are almost as drastic). Peace will remain an impossibility because Israel will have nothing to do with peace talks where Hamas (a terrorist group) has a say in a treaty until their avowed aims and practices undergo a drastic change.

Talk about a Catch 22.
 
Whispering Death said:
There are very numberous ammounts of significant differences but just because there are does not mean that comparisons in certain aspects can not be made, as you have pointed out.

Saying Hamas=hitler is misunderstanding the situation but saying that there are no parallels between the lessons learned from WW2 and what is happening in Palestine right now is being even more blind.

Sounds like a reasonable answer and to a large part true the tempering fact in this for me is that the Palestinian Authority is not a government of a nation therefore there is not a lot they can do and as long as the "democratic" infrastructure remains in place they will either do the job or be evicted from power.

So there ya go another response and neither of us had to burst into colour to do it.
 
I sincerely hope no civil war breaks out in Palestine and that Hamas removes Israel's destruction from it's to do list.

I think it would be inacceptable for them to relinquish their weapons, unless both Fatah and Hamas do so, and the weapons come under control of the Palestinian Army and Police, which would kinda be controlled by Hamas anyway.
 
A civil war is not very lkely. Though the ruling Fatah Party and the Hamas are likely to disagree on certain issues, political dissent is the base of Democracy. But hopefully, this democracy will not resort to violence as noted by US Secretary of State Rice who mentioned that you cannot have one foot at the side of democracy and violence in another.
 
CABAL said:
But hopefully, this democracy will not resort to violence as noted by US Secretary of State Rice who mentioned that you cannot have one foot at the side of democracy and violence in another.

LOL. Then what about her own country? Or any democratic country involved in combat operations?
 
I agree mohmar that was a pretty hypocritical statement for someone to make as their country fights a war.
 
Godofthunder9010 :-D
gladius :-D :-D

Hey guys!

Great to be back on the forum, I know I have been away for a while, have had alot to do and, well here I am again, Btw this place looks great! My hat is off for the Administrators!

Back to the Palestinian election - I heard another ridiculas item today on CNN that still are talking about Europes Identity Crisis. That is BS and anyone who is a European that can think for themselves know this to be a fact. The poor people that are driven by fanatism got their answers today from the best friend of the late Van Gogh that was shoot and then got his throat cut off by a fundamentalist in Belgium after his movie Submission was done, all remember it I believe, so basicly what he said, Van Goghs friend that is, was Van Gogh hated fundamentalists and that I also do, but he also flashed some light over this issue. The religion in itself is fundamentalism and that is also true, the fact is that Muhammed himself was a guerilla fighter or as he would have been called today, Freedom Fighter, Insurgent or as I call them, Terrorists. He also said something more important, wich was that wherever Islam ( and behind this there is some good scientific evidence) turns up in the world you get the following:

Situation with Islam, Europe and the world -
Islamists are fifth colonists in any country that they are allowed to do their thing inside of, they take the society down stone by stone untill there is only Islam left. That is how it works, (Indonesia) and how it has worked all since Muhammeds armys was halted. The new method of takeover is to do this. Europeans most of them can look through this political correct BS about Islam being a peace love and understanding upfront religion, so reaction is - The muslim population are pushed aside not because the color of their skinn, but because any sane person knows that true Islam is the opposite of everything we stand for.

However CNN calls the reactions amongs Europeans Racism, Islam-phobia, sometimes alienation and other words that points at the Europeans to be the bad people with a identity crisis, when it is our own new citizens that got a bad identity crisis and not the other way around, well everything is not black and white so Europeans ,most of them, have one too, when we on one hand talks about womens rights etc etc but on the other hand we should accept Islam even Radical Islam being pushed on the women of other "cultures" Religions infact inside our own countrys.

Off course people get angry and ofcourse the more moderate version of the Islamists are growing older, a reaction on this - the younger generation want as anyone else changes to their faviour, and Allah has simply told them what to do.

The most ridiculus item of the day, a Hamas leader talking on CNN telling the world that a terrorist branded group, elected by the Palestinian people should not be considered a terrorist group despite that they have called for the destruction of Israel and sticks to that agenda. The people have given them their votes so they cant be terrorists right. Well I look upon this ridiculus speach as A- BS and B- if the people want terrorists running their country they are C- Also terrorists so now there are no happy friendly Palestinians left IMO, well there is a moderate minority left. Therefore I think we can look forward to another civil war with many dead happy civilians, or D- the moderate Palestinians are simply to few to win this battle so they join the terrorists? Hard to tell.

There is a plan behind all this, alot of people put their heads down in the sand and refuses to see this plan, there are people that can see the plan because they have educated themselves with non biased ( biased = politicall jumbo mambo bs) material open for everyone to read if they so choose to do so but they dont, so they are the happy terrorist friends that want the world to spread even more dollars and Euros on more guns for the Hamas/Iran so these sneaky Nazis ,as I call them, because they are the new Nazis indeed when they support Hamas and Iranian leaders as they so often do, can use those guns to push all jews and the state of Israel down into the sea. Adolf Hitler was crude but those who runs parts of this world today, and those who shelter the so called innocent Freedom fighters and terrorists with words of flower power are no better themselves.

I say stop all founding to Palestine today. Stop all connection with that terror state and let Israel build their wall. No connections with the so called Palestinians before they have found a better alternative then Hamas. When they think the world should listen, when they play we can all be happy terrorists and let Hamas destroy Israel, give them some time to reassess their situation. Hamas cant be funny and sweet guys to a whole people without the support from the rest of the world right? Given all food, money and education. When Hamas cant feed the population anymore well then they are toast. Simple tactics, do a naval blokade of Palestine, dont let anything pass in or out that place and people will reassess their situation. This have been done before so we can do it again, or are we afraid for the jews? I have to ask that question.

Perhaps we want the jews to suffer even more? I say we have a responsibility for the jewish population, and we should stick up for them and not hide our heads in the sand as we did 1932-1945. The Arabs can take care of their people if they want to help out. They got Mecca in Saudi Arabia - my suggestion - move to Saudi Arabia and let Israel have a real state that they honestly with their own blood have won from the greedy arabs that attacked the Israelis in the first place, just a suggestion.

Doc.S
:viking:
 
Wow, I am getting really confused here! All those colors, accusations, possible have-you's and have-you-nots.....
I'll start of with the Hitler- Hamas comparison. I personally think it's bogus. The statement that they both hate Jews is true, but so do the Russians and many other nations. As I recall correctly many nations shut it's borders for the Jews who were trying to flee Germany after 1932. It would be saver to state that many nations weren't all too friendly with the Jews in those days!
Some say that they are alike. So what will be next? If the two are so alike regardless of comtemporary history, we will see a new Dachau, Auschwithz, Sobibor, Treblinka and industrial mass murder all over. I reckon that that is pretty bloody unlikely. (Please don't say that a few kids shredding themselves is the same as what the Nazi's did!)

Secondly, experimenting with democracy will lead to extreme results the first few times. But, as history shows, leading a nation/ government takes more then extremist exclamations. Education, infra-structure, food etc. don not appear out of nowhere. And nothing lessens the extremity more then to publicly hold office. My guess is that Hamas will become less and less extreme. As was said before, Spain transformed from dictatorship to well functioning democracy in 15 years. So did Portugal and many others.


And then you sarcastically ask Gladius: "What if your democracy experiment gives rise to something like that too?", showing that you do not have any "democracy experiment" up your sleeve, and you couldn't care less about that weird concept. Are you somewhat adverse to democracy yourself?

You're right IG, I am not very fond of the democracy we have. I think that one should say whether or not they want to use their democratic right. If they say no, they are excluded from furhter voting etc. Or somekind of test should be made if you are capable of voting. Why should my vote account for the same of some guy who doesn't give a hoot? Why should somebody who is uninformed, uninterested and uncaring have the same vote as somebody who actively follows the political debate? He ends up in a ballot-box marking some extemist party with no plan just because he thinks it a neat "trick"!
After two political murders you see that many people are very susceptible to all kinds of new political parties. People stand up and yell: all foreigners should be tagged, labelled and deported. They score big time and have no clue how to run a country. That worries me...
 
Ted said:
After two political murders you see that many people are very susceptible to all kinds of new political parties. People stand up and yell: all foreigners should be tagged, labelled and deported. They score big time and have no clue how to run a country. That worries me...

Yeah, but eventuallly they'll notice they screwed up, and the error will be corrected. In the end, everyone's richer for the experience.
 
One hopes that Hamas doesn't do anything ubelievably stupid that will directly lead to Israel saying, "See, I told you so." and forcibly retracting all the freedoms that they just allowed. The history of Hamas certainly would suggest that this is exactly what will happen though. "Leopards Can't Change Their Spots." <-- Not always true, but I think that is going to be the end result.
 
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Wow, I am getting really confused here! All those colors, accusations, possible have-you's and have-you-nots

Fifth colonists has always been a problem and will always be there and I respect that fact, you see all my so called accusations are valid information that are based on reality, what people like yourselfe seems to always forget is what is reality, and what is baised propaganda that are based on a utopia Illusion that some people try to uphold with any means possible. All I have to tell you is that you need to read some valid facts that pretty much takes away all this BS that someone have braindrained you with, belive me I am a very tolerant person, they have tried for 20 years to change pure survival and pure sense out of me with their 24-7 propaganda but I have a message for people like you and all your happy friends that thinks that all this shit will end up in a gray happy mass of everything co-excisting and all. That aint going to happen, and do you know why? Because the reality will bite everyones ass and before they know it all this gray will be pure black or pure white. Because when fanatics begin to rule this earth, wich they will if people like myself dont speak my mind to get debunkers like yourself to reassess and change tactics I would let myself down togheter with all happy fifth colonists that also need people like myself to protect their ass when the Illusion falls appart and the reality is there. I got one valid message for you sir. Go to the library and try to get the following book. Read it, and read it good. Then return with something that is valid and make a differance, leave that little box and smell the dead roses, as I did. Titel - Beyond Belief by author and Nobel Prize winner VS Naipaul from 2001, you going to like it. Fact is that our western politicians have loost the control over this situation, and our so called Free media are not far behind to loose it completly.

:thumb:

Doc.S
:viking:
 
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