To hamas from Israel :"Free soldier or PM dies."

Rabs

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[FONT=ARIAL,VERDANA,HELVETICA][SIZE=+7]http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0%2C20867%2C19645805-601%2C00.html

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Israel warns: free soldier or PM dies

Middle East correspondent Martin Chulov July 01, 2006

ISRAEL last night threatened to assassinate Palestinian Prime Minister Ismael Haniyeh if Hamas militants did not release a captured Israeli soldier unharmed.

The unprecedented warning was delivered to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas in a letter as Israel debated a deal offered by Hamas to free Corporal Gilad Shalit.
It came as Israeli military officials readied a second invasion force for a huge offensive into Gaza.
Hamas's Gaza-based political leaders, including Mr Haniyeh, had already gone into hiding.
But last night's direct threat to kill Mr Haniyeh, a democratically elected head of state, sharply raised the stakes.
The bid to free Corporal Shalit was brokered by Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, who last night warned Hamas it faced severe consequences if it did not curb its "extreme stance" and described the growing conflict as a lightning rod for Palestinian vengeance.
Jerusalem has made no official comment, but Egyptian state media said Israel had found the offer unacceptable. Israel has not spelt out the terms demanded by Hamas, but earlier this week it refused to buy into talk of a prisoner swap.
Thousands of Hamas supporters protested in Gaza City late on Thursday over the arrest by Israeli forces of up to 32 Hamas MPs on the West Bank that day.
A Hamas spokesman said the group would never recognise Israel, in spite of a deal its leaders signed this week offering implicit recognition of the Jewish state in return for easing an economic blockade.
Israeli fighter jets bombed 20 targets in Gaza, including the Interior Ministry, which it said had been used by militants to stage meetings, while artillery hit the northern strip with 500 shells in the 24 hours until yesterday morning.
Jewish settler Eliyahu Asheri, who was murdered by militants this week, was buried on Thursday as leaders of the Popular Resistance Committees pledged to seize more hostages in the West Bank. No further word has emerged about another suspected Jewish hostage, Noach Moskowitz, who Israeli police said was found dead hours after Mr Asheri's remains were found.
Much of Gaza, including two main hospitals, was without power and running water as a UN aid chief warned that the 1.4 million residents of the strip were three days away from a humanitarian crisis.
"They are heading for the abyss unless they get electricity and fuel restored," said emergency relief co-ordinator Jan Egeland, who urged militants to free Corporal Shalit and stop firing rockets into Israel.
Residents complain that sonic booms caused by Israeli jets traumatise children and that shelling confines families to their homes.
Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has vowed the military will do all it can to avoid civilian deaths if a full-scale assault is launched.
Mr Olmert said the decision to invade northern Gaza had already been delayed to allow Mr Mubarak's negotiations to continue.
The arrested Hamas legislators have been sent to security prisons and many will stand trial on terrorism offences. The detentions have hurt Hamas's already limited ability to govern and are likely to force a regime change.
Israel claims it has intelligence about the area where Corporal Shalit is held, but has been unable to pinpoint the exact location. Mr Olmert said the military would leave the strip if he was unconditionally and safely returned.
Egypt and the neighbouring Arab states of Jordan and Lebanon fear a war between Israel and the Palestinians could lead to uprisings within their own borders, which house many Palestinian refugees.
Looks to me like Israel is raising the steaks, opinions?
 
Good, I like the way Israelis deal with terrorism! HAMAS must learn that this is not a joke and they should grow up and stop blaming any one else for their problems.
 
I really dont get it. For the last week the news was all: Hamas has now agreed with Fatah for some kind of peace plan, Hamas will accept Israels right to exist, in exchange for a Palestinian state and so forth. And now they kidnap an Israeli and cause an Israeli invasion. How does that fit in with their plan? Is that supposed to make any sense? The way I see it, those guys are either totally nuts or terribly disorganized. In any case, if they get their own state, it will probably become the next Somalia.
 
Maybe hamas has difficulty contolling the gaza crowd since there's a lot of people there who are very angry and poor. That's always a recipe for irrational decision making. Hamas would probably feel humiliated for agreeing to israeli demands, but as i see it they have few choices left.

Will this generations old fighting ever end? Israel wants peace and recognition, palestiinians want independence and a better quality of life. If it weren't for all the little skirmishes inbetween the big agreements, stability would have been well on its way.
 
Jesus, the day there is peace in the Middle East...

And those Israelis mean business, I'm glad to see they are showing some teeth.

It's spelt stakes, by the way. You eat steak.
 
Ironic how winning the election stacks circumstances for Hamas. Because their now the ruling party in Parliment, there are lots and lots of memebers of their organization that can simply be taken by Israel when they pull this kidnapping crap.
 
phoenix80 said:
Good, I like the way Israelis deal with terrorism! HAMAS must learn that this is not a joke and they should grow up and stop blaming any one else for their problems.

Terrorism? It's funny how it's only considered terrorism when you use a car bomb, a suicide bomber, or take "hostages" (which are really POW's at this point). The truth is both sides of this conflict are guilty of terrorism.

I wonder how you would feel if someone gave half of your land away to foreigners whos only claim to was that they had it 1000 years ago. But then again moving many jews back to the holy land seemed like a good idea at the time...

There are significant idealogical differences between the military wing and the political wing of Hamas. When the political wing tries to resolve things peacefully, the military wing tries to solve things militarily, and vice versa.
 
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^Wait...are you saying the Palestinians are decedents of Canaanites?

This conflict will never end. The Middle East will always be at war though there will be lulls here and there. Even if the Israelis weren't there, the differing religious sects would be slaughtering each other.

While I don't enjoy the idea of Israel slaughtering Palestinians, I don't think a message of peace or appeasement will do anything but invite more attacks.
 
Let's see ... according to Hamas when they use an IED or a suicide bomb it's because that's the ONLY way they can send a warning to the rest of the world that the world needs to take them seriously ... BUT ... when Israel or any other country takes out a group of Hamas terrorists with a rocket, bomb or a tank round, that's not a message. Alright ... I get it ... it's ONLY a message when they are the ones doing it....... The rest of the time it's an attack on civilians ...yeah right.
 
There have been israeli killing of civilians lately, that's probably what caused the abduction of the soldier in the firstplace. Israel didn't intentionally kill the civilians, they just botched some assassination attempts and bystanders died instead. That and the mysterious shelling of that beach.

Who would of thought that we would still be hearing about this fighting that started 60 years ago, it's like an anacrhonism at this point. My suggestion, blame the british, they partitioned everything and then left the area alone, that's just negligent.
 
Dark_Mark said:
Terrorism? It's funny how it's only considered terrorism when you use a car bomb, a suicide bomber, or take "hostages" (which are really POW's at this point). The truth is both sides of this conflict are guilty of terrorism.

I wonder how you would feel if someone gave half of your land away to foreigners whos only claim to was that they had it 1000 years ago. But then again moving many jews back to the holy land seemed like a good idea at the time...

There are significant idealogical differences between the military wing and the political wing of Hamas. When the political wing tries to resolve things peacefully, the military wing tries to solve things militarily, and vice versa.

No Israel is a democratic state fighting islamic jihadist and I wish US and UK could learn a bit from Israelis' way of dealing with terrorists.

Israel is not a terrorist state and it is committed to the rule of law when fighting those ba$tard suicide bombers

Get your facts straight before posting dude!
 
Dark_Mark said:
I wonder how you would feel if someone gave half of your land away to foreigners whos only claim to was that they had it 1000 years ago. But then again moving many jews back to the holy land seemed like a good idea at the time...

When Palestine was divided in 1947/48, the Jewish immigration had already been going for 70 years! Many of those people had been living there for decades already and they had nowhere they could have been sent back to. Actually the claims of most arab inhabitants are as strong or as weak as those of the jews because most arabs had only immigrated to Palestine after the first jewish immigration waves created an economic upsurge. Before 1880, Palestine was very sparsely populated, an economically weak Hinterland to Syria.
 
loki said:
I really dont get it. For the last week the news was all: Hamas has now agreed with Fatah for some kind of peace plan, Hamas will accept Israels right to exist, in exchange for a Palestinian state and so forth. And now they kidnap an Israeli and cause an Israeli invasion. How does that fit in with their plan? Is that supposed to make any sense? The way I see it, those guys are either totally nuts or terribly disorganized. In any case, if they get their own state, it will probably become the next Somalia.
As it had been already mentioned, there are divisions within the HAMAS.
Those people who are involved in the government, can't work fruitfully as a government of the Palestinian people without Israel's help. And they won't get it if the PA won't recognize Israel.
However, there are others, especially, living in exile(e.g. Syria) who don't have this problem. They continue their "holy war". I believe, it was their attempt to stop that deal from happening on the first place.
 
phoenix80 said:
No Israel is a democratic state fighting islamic jihadist and I wish US and UK could learn a bit from Israelis' way of dealing with terrorists.

Israel is not a terrorist state and it is committed to the rule of law when fighting those ba$tard suicide bombers

Get your facts straight before posting dude!

Facts? Those resemble opinions.

So Hamas rules over an autocracy? The fact is there are plenty of innocent Palestinians in Israeli jails. None of them are called "hostages."

Both sides of this conflict have committed acts of terrorism. Israeli laser-guided bombs have killed plenty of innocent Palestinians, just like Palestinian suicide bombers have killed plenty of innocent Israelis.

I thought Palestine was inhabited by arabs since roughly the time of Mohammed, no?
 
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Dark_Mark said:
Facts? Those resemble opinions.

So Hamas rules over an autocracy? The fact is there are plenty of innocent Palestinians in Israeli jails. None of them are called "hostages."

Both sides of this conflict have committed acts of terrorism. Israeli laser-guided bombs have killed plenty of innocent Palestinians, just like Palestinian suicide bombers have killed plenty of innocent Israelis.

I thought Palestine was inhabited by arabs since roughly the time of Mohammed, no?
DM please try to get your facts straight ... at the time of the partition, Jews had been gathering in that portion of the area in what is now Israel for at least 70 years and the area was mostly Jewish. It was because of Jewish efforts that the property was worth more than 2 cents an acre. This contributed to the decision to cede the land to the Jews for a new Jewish state ... up until that time the 'Palestinians' were NOT making much of an attempt to develop the land.

The Jewish people had as much claim to the land as the Palestinians did ... the predominate population at that time was Jewish.

As far as the historical imperatives, Jews were inhabiting those lands as long as the arabs ... if not longer.
 
So, because Jews had been moving there for 70 years and they were "developing" the land that gives them the right to steal it?

Well, I guess it really was the British who caused this... but still, I can't help but feel sorry for the Palestinians. They really have no other options because they lack an organized military.
 
major liability said:
So, because Jews had been moving there for 70 years and they were "developing" the land that gives them the right to steal it?

Well, I guess it really was the British who caused this... but still, I can't help but feel sorry for the Palestinians. They really have no other options because they lack an organized military.

The point I was making was that the Jews had as good a claim to the land as the Palestinians did.

You might call it stealing, others called it redressing a prior claim.
 
major liability said:
So, because Jews had been moving there for 70 years and they were "developing" the land that gives them the right to steal it?

Well, I guess it really was the British who caused this... but still, I can't help but feel sorry for the Palestinians. They really have no other options because they lack an organized military.


well, we stole our land from the British...
 
Well, it's sort of like when General Andrew Jackson was ordered to solve the "Indian" and foreign pirates problem in Florida. The President and Congress told him to do it, not how. He took his army and attacked the tribes, when they went to fight, he burned all undefended villages and food. All hapless French, British, and Indians were cut down except for two British officials, he hung them. The US told Spain that if they wanted Florida, they were to occupy and defend it or lose it. They chose the latter. Thus began the "to the victor go the spoils" method of warfare.

This is the way the Jews see things and so far, I haven't been able to find anything to the contrary. Of course this is a Jewish site but that doesn't rewrite history.

http://www.masada2000.org/

There has never been a civilization or a nation referred to as "Palestine" and the very notion of a "Palestinian Arab nation" having ancient attachments to the Holy Land going back to time immemorial is one of the biggest hoaxes ever perpetrated upon the world! There is not, nor has there ever been, a distinct "Palestinian" culture or language. Further, there has never been a Palestinian state governed BY Arab Palestinians in history, nor was there ever a serious Arab-Palestinian national movement until 1964... three years BEFORE the Arabs of "Palestine" lost the West Bank [Judea and Samaria] and Gaza as a result of the 1967 Six-Day War (which the Arabs started).Even the so-called leader of the "Palestinian" people, Yasser Arafat, is EGYPTIAN! In short, the so-called Arab "Palestinians" are a manufactured people...a people with no history and no authenticity... whose sole purpose for existence is to destroy the Jewish State!

Israel first became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., two thousand years before the rise of Islam! Seven hundred and twenty-six years later in 586 B.C.E. these first ancient Jews in the Land of Israel [Judea] were overrun and Israel's First Jewish Temple (on Jerusalem's Old City Temple Mount) was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, king of ancient Babylon. Many of the Jews were killed or expelled; however many were allowed to remain. These Jews along with their progeny and other Jews who would resettle over the next 500 years, rebuilt the Nation of Israel and also a Second Temple in Jerusalem upon the Temple Mount. Thus the claim that Jews suddenly appeared fifty years ago right after the Holocaust and drove out the Arabs is preposterous!
 
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Dark_Mark said:
Facts? Those resemble opinions.

So Hamas rules over an autocracy? The fact is there are plenty of innocent Palestinians in Israeli jails. None of them are called "hostages."

Both sides of this conflict have committed acts of terrorism. Israeli laser-guided bombs have killed plenty of innocent Palestinians, just like Palestinian suicide bombers have killed plenty of innocent Israelis.

I thought Palestine was inhabited by arabs since roughly the time of Mohammed, no?

Hamas is a terrorist organization, dude.

That land belongs to Jews first before it belongs to Arabs or Muslims
 
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