To hamas from Israel :"Free soldier or PM dies."

hamas is just a pathetic loser. After Hamas kidnapped a Israel soldier, then they complained Isreal military kidnapped their leaders? Israel soldiers should find and capture all of terrorists, then shoot them one by one. the only and the best solution of dealing with these terrorists is to shoot them and kill them. no more compromises, no more negotiations.
what's wrong with Jews repossess their lands which were robbed by Arab.
 
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Oh bollocks, I have been hearing this same old song for 3 decades already. Everybody blaims everybody and it seems to be some sort of perpetuem mobile. This monstrosity seems able to keep on moving all by itself even when everybody screams that they want peace!

Lately my sympathy went towards the Palestinians, because in the lull of the misery the Israeli's built this will out of "self-defence". The fact that many Palestines lost their livelyhood was enough to increase the membership of radical islamic organisations. It is just one big power struggle dipped into a little religious sauce..... To be quite frank, I had enough of it. Why not make a list of everybody who want to fight it out, put them into an arena, bring in ESPN and film the biggest slaughter in ages. The winner takes all, the loser is dead..... end of discussion!
 
Ted's comment is typical of those who can't seem to learn from history ... not only that, this kind of person wants to rewrite history and completely ignore that which was written from a non-partisan viewpoint.
 
I 100% agree with you Chief! That's why I love my signature so much (and see Churchill as an astude observer of human psychology...) You have millions of participants in an endless discussion; all of them think they are right, none of them change their minds and they certainly won't change the subject. I'm trying to skip the endless articles in the newspaper on this topic, since I have read it all before..... It is just too sad for words.
 
major liability said:
So, because Jews had been moving there for 70 years and they were "developing" the land that gives them the right to steal it?
They didnt steal it, they were given (part of) the land by the UN assembly. It was the British that had allowed jews to buy land and settle in Palestine. When the British mandate ended, it was obvious that these two groups could not govern the country together, so there had to be two states. The only alternative was to disseize and deport all jews.... to well dunno maybe Madagaskar.

And as I already posted, a majority of the "Palestinians" living there in 1947 were decendants of arabs who had immigrated there a few decades ago. So them whining today that the jews took away the land of their forefathers, were they had lived happily for 2000 years is total nonsense. The land of their forefathers would be mostly Syria, Jordan, Lebanon or Egypt.
 
the point to me is Hamas is no longer simply a terrorist organiztion with ties to Syria and Iran....it is now a soverign state against a soverign state, one of which openly wants Isreal to cease to exist...and will use any means possible to make that happen....they keep screwing around with the Jewish state they will be pushed in the Negev and into Egypt...and lose their precious 'homeland' forever.

rule number one in life...never pick on someone that can and will beat the holyf*** out of you...
 
I wonder, in 200 years, if the human race still exists, what the history books will say of the conflict in the Middle East, who was right and who was wrong.
 
WarMachine said:
The cockroaches are always right, they write the history at that point anyway.

Your premise has some merit ... however ... the reason that the cockroaches write the history is because it's impossible to completely wipe them out even if you use "the bomb".
 
Missileer said:
Well, it's sort of like when General Andrew Jackson was ordered to solve the "Indian" and foreign pirates problem in Florida. The President and Congress told him to do it, not how. He took his army and attacked the tribes, when they went to fight, he burned all undefended villages and food. All hapless French, British, and Indians were cut down except for two British officials, he hung them. The US told Spain that if they wanted Florida, they were to occupy and defend it or lose it. They chose the latter. Thus began the "to the victor go the spoils" method of warfare.

This is the way the Jews see things and so far, I haven't been able to find anything to the contrary. Of course this is a Jewish site but that doesn't rewrite history.

http://www.masada2000.org/

There has never been a civilization or a nation referred to as "Palestine" and the very notion of a "Palestinian Arab nation" having ancient attachments to the Holy Land going back to time immemorial is one of the biggest hoaxes ever perpetrated upon the world! There is not, nor has there ever been, a distinct "Palestinian" culture or language. Further, there has never been a Palestinian state governed BY Arab Palestinians in history, nor was there ever a serious Arab-Palestinian national movement until 1964... three years BEFORE the Arabs of "Palestine" lost the West Bank [Judea and Samaria] and Gaza as a result of the 1967 Six-Day War (which the Arabs started).Even the so-called leader of the "Palestinian" people, Yasser Arafat, is EGYPTIAN! In short, the so-called Arab "Palestinians" are a manufactured people...a people with no history and no authenticity... whose sole purpose for existence is to destroy the Jewish State!

Israel first became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., two thousand years before the rise of Islam! Seven hundred and twenty-six years later in 586 B.C.E. these first ancient Jews in the Land of Israel [Judea] were overrun and Israel's First Jewish Temple (on Jerusalem's Old City Temple Mount) was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, king of ancient Babylon. Many of the Jews were killed or expelled; however many were allowed to remain. These Jews along with their progeny and other Jews who would resettle over the next 500 years, rebuilt the Nation of Israel and also a Second Temple in Jerusalem upon the Temple Mount. Thus the claim that Jews suddenly appeared fifty years ago right after the Holocaust and drove out the Arabs is preposterous!

However, there were palestinian people in a state in the Ottoman Empire called Palestine. In 1914, Jews only made up 12% of the population. So, the situation isn't as clear cut as it may seem.

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_ww1_palestine_eveofwar.php

Besides, the real reason the Hamas party won parliament was the massive corruption of the Fatah party. After Arafat's death, all hell broke looses as every palestinian discovered that millions of dollars of foreign aid had evaporated into thin air.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1693433,00.html

Everyone seems to forget that the Jewish state has been just as murderous as the Palestinian one... just because you use airplanes and bombs doesn't somehow give you the moral high ground against someone who uses suicide bombers!

After all, what else will the Palestinians do against one of the most powerful armies in the world? Fire some rpg's and ak47's at the advancing a1 Abrams tanks and die en mass?
 
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DM
You can try to rewrite history all you want and it will change nothing. As long as Hamas's stated aim is to destroy the country of Israel and to wipe out ALL jews, the Palestinians will never be able to have a country of their own (the first country in history they can call their own).

Continued finger pointing and name calling doesn't change the fact that the Palestinians HAVE NEVER had a real homeland. All you have to do is to look where 'Palestinians" originated ... Egyptians, Syrians, Jordanians, Lebanonese make up present day Palestinians.
 
Dark_Mark said:
However, there were palestinian people in a state in the Ottoman Empire called Palestine. In 1914, Jews only made up 12% of the population. So, the situation isn't as clear cut as it may seem.
Yes but that region included what is today the kingdom of Jordan and parts of the Golan Heights! So the situation gets a bit clearer again.
 
Before those guys there were the other guys and before the other guys there were those who were there even before the second guys and those were the first guys and the whole bunch got there by bonking the other guys with their clubs and poking them with their stiks:bang: :biggun: :hide: :m16shoot: :tank: :2guns: :sniper: so hang on to what you got, there are some other guys that want it.

Human beans baby, we take care of business :drunkb:
 
the conflict will never become resolved if one side is always blaming the other. A complete armistice and then a treaty needs to be signed by the palestinians and israelis after the renegades are cleared away. Then both sides can agree on some things and go their seperate ways.

If the area was partitioned in 1955 or so instead of 1947, then things would be a lot more stable since there would have been more international observations of the developmetn of israel and palestine. I suppose it's just one of those historical screw ups that in hindsight could have been corrected.
 
Resolution of the conflict???????

WarMachine said:
the conflict will never become resolved if one side is always blaming the other. A complete armistice and then a treaty needs to be signed by the palestinians and israelis after the renegades are cleared away. Then both sides can agree on some things and go their seperate ways.

If the area was partitioned in 1955 or so instead of 1947, then things would be a lot more stable since there would have been more international observations of the developmetn of israel and palestine. I suppose it's just one of those historical screw ups that in hindsight could have been corrected.

W.M.
The biggest stumbling block was/is/continues to be, Hamas's stated goal of destroying the country of Israel and removing the Jewish influence from the area by ANY means possible.

Put this into REAL context ... Hamas (a terrorist group), is now in control of the Palestinian government and you now have a recipe which is ripe with pending disaster. Israel CAN NOT deal with a government which has a public stance like Hamas's (they don't dare turn their backs). If they did, it would sooner or later mean a major disaster for all Israelis - it would open the window to unprecedented carnage by terrorists (Hamas).

Until the Palestinians wake up to the fact that Hamas is NOT their friend and gets rid of them, Israel will continue to respond to attacks against their country and people with military power. What this really means is a continuous state of war between the Palestinians and Israel with no end in sight. Removal of Hamas from the equation is the ONLY hope for peaceful resolution of this conflict.
 
Remind me how I am re-writing history? The region was primarily arabic for a long period of time.

The Israeli government is just as much of a terrorist organization as Hamas. When they target "terrorists," they always end up using excessive force (abrams tanks, bombing raids, artillery strikes) and killing or imprisoning many innocents.

If you ask me, the problem seems to be Israel's unilateral policies.

Remove Hamas? And instate who? Fatah? So they can screw over the Palestinians more with their corruption and refusal to aggressively pursue negotiation with Israel??? Or would it be better to just institute an autocracy? Or commit genocide?
 
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Hearken to a little real history BUB ...

Dark_Mark said:
Remind me how I am re-writing history? The region was primarily arabic for a long period of time.....................................
Since you seem to have missed a part of my post lend an ear and really read and listen instead of trying to dazzle us with your propaganda .......

...... As long as Hamas's stated aim is to destroy the country of Israel and to wipe out ALL Jews, the Palestinians will never be able to have a country of their own (the first country in history they can call their own). (This group of 'Palestinians" has NEVER had a country of their own ... PERIOD).

Continued finger pointing and name calling doesn't change the fact that the Palestinians HAVE NEVER had a real homeland. All you have to do is to look where 'Palestinians" originated ... (Modern Palestinians DID NOT originate in Palestine) Egyptians, Syrians, Jordanians, Lebanese make up present day Palestinians.

The fact that there were Arabs in a portion of the region did NOT automatically grant ownership to the the present day Palestinians just because they are Arabs. Jews had as much right to these lands as the Arabs ... Arab population was very very sparse until Jewish merchants and tradesmen made part of the region profitable ... at that time Palestinians suddenly saw an area that was worth something, and they tried to take it for their own. Part of the response was Israel's kick ass 6 day war (Jun 5, 1967). Even though it was primarily aimed at Egypt and Jordan, it sent a message to the entire Arab community. Since that time, the Arab group now identified as Palestinian, has been trying to drive Israel from the area using terrorism as their primary weapon. You decry Israel's use of Abrams tanks, bombing raids, artillery strikes, etc ... but never accuse the Palestinians of crimes against humanity when they use IEDs and suicide bombers to target civilians.

Just for historical information: The British chose to call the land they mandated Palestine, and the Arabs picked it up as their nation's supposed ancient name, though they couldn't even pronounce it correctly and turned it into Falastin a fictional entity.

SO - as I said stop your bs propaganda and stop trying to rewrite history - you are out of your league ... most of the forum members recognize what it is you are trying to do and they won't let you get away with it.

For sure I will call you on it.
 
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