Gun laws
senojekips
Active member
I think you'll find that this subject has been done to death here.
No it's not the guns that are the problem, it's the wild west mindset of some of those who own them.
Problem is the mindset of those who want to ban them.
senojekips
Active member
Tell me you're an trolling idiot George, I never said a word against responsible firearms ownership.
Did I say you did? Just a general observation of those who do.
BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
A chap I knew in UK was a member of a wild west society, he had all the kit, (except for the horse), big hat, cowboy boots, spurs, low slung blank firing Colt 45 Peacemakers, some had blank firing Winchester rifles. After a club meeting one night they decided to have a gun fight in the street outside the clubhouse firing blank ammunition. Old Bill turned up and arrested the lot, then confiscated their firearms.
They spent the night in the cells and all were fined by a magistrate the next morning and had their firearms confiscated.
For weeks afterwards, every time I saw the bloke I couldn't stop laughing.
.Sorry off topic
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Trooper1854
The Brit Pack
Did a firearms awareness course last year with our local armed response guys.
They had a collection of confiscated weapons ranging from replicas and airsoft stuff to an AK-47, SLR, and a Bren Gun!
The AK was brought into the UK by a guy ho bought it in one of the Balkan states, the Bren Gun was re-activated from a legaly available de-activated weapon.
The old man who they got it off had a fully equipped workshop and had done it as "I wonder if?" project. Apparently they also confiscated a Vickers he was about to start work on!
He also had a Glock that was an 8mm blank firer, modified to fire .22!
The SLR was a Falkland's war souvenir!
The sad thing is despite having some of the toughest laws in Europe regarding firearms and imitation firearms, its not too difficult for criminals to get hold of them.
A colleague of mine is an American Civil War re-enactor.
He owns a number of working firearms classed as "antiques" so they do not require any form of license.
Among his collection is a Navy Colt, and a .45 Martini Henry.
Both fully functioning and able to fire a large callibre round.
They had a collection of confiscated weapons ranging from replicas and airsoft stuff to an AK-47, SLR, and a Bren Gun!
The AK was brought into the UK by a guy ho bought it in one of the Balkan states, the Bren Gun was re-activated from a legaly available de-activated weapon.
The old man who they got it off had a fully equipped workshop and had done it as "I wonder if?" project. Apparently they also confiscated a Vickers he was about to start work on!
He also had a Glock that was an 8mm blank firer, modified to fire .22!
The SLR was a Falkland's war souvenir!
The sad thing is despite having some of the toughest laws in Europe regarding firearms and imitation firearms, its not too difficult for criminals to get hold of them.
A colleague of mine is an American Civil War re-enactor.
He owns a number of working firearms classed as "antiques" so they do not require any form of license.
Among his collection is a Navy Colt, and a .45 Martini Henry.
Both fully functioning and able to fire a large callibre round.
BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
I don't know if the law has changed that much, when I was in UK shooting black powder muzzle loaders, a explosive licence was required from the cop shop.
At least the UK showed some sense in taking black powder firearms off ticket.
When I think of the fun the Yanks have shooting fully automatic's and artillery pieces, I could weep with envy.
The British government spent a lot of money (maybe 2 shillings and 6 pence) training blokes like thee and me, yet in civi street we are not regarded responsible enough to own SLR's and such like.
At least the UK showed some sense in taking black powder firearms off ticket.
When I think of the fun the Yanks have shooting fully automatic's and artillery pieces, I could weep with envy.
The British government spent a lot of money (maybe 2 shillings and 6 pence) training blokes like thee and me, yet in civi street we are not regarded responsible enough to own SLR's and such like.
Trooper1854
The Brit Pack
You still need a license to own and use black powder.
But you are right.
A knee jerk reaction after Hungerford and Dunblane ruined it for a whole load of law abiding citizens.
The bloke the Police got the AK from bought it in a flea market in Kosovo for £25!
He said he thought it was a replica. He put it in his car boot and drove across Europe and through UK border control with out getting caught!
If he had a boot full of fags and booze, they would have caught him for that!
Of course the definition of "reasonable" varies widely!
JerryGuevorts
New Member
ive got a house full of guns - i run the Australian RSL Museum - Ive got everything from AK47 s to mortar
Its lucky Im good mates with Ken Josling the local pig - he is a great chap and keeps his mouth shut
ha ha
Its lucky Im good mates with Ken Josling the local pig - he is a great chap and keeps his mouth shut
ha ha
mmarsh
Active member
Which is why both sides need to sit down and work that out.
The problem is you have people in the NRA leadership who are against even the most common sense forms of control, measures its own members support. They force their supporters in Congress to take 'no compromise' positions.
And as they have no one to negotiate with, the far left takes extreme positions that are not reasonable, which the right then complains about...
Tankboy
The Brit Pack
Drugs are illegal in UK too, doesn't stop people getting them though.
The laws in Britain re guns, are to protect the people.
Not the rights of people like US.
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
I am not sure why people think automatic weapons are hard to come by, if you want a genuine Russian AK all you have to do is head to the nearest fishing port and wait for the first Russian fishing boat to show up after the local banks have closed for the evening for a bottle of vodka you can damn near get the boat catch and all.
You would be amazed at the number of AK's and SKS's floating around that have been acquired this way fortunately you also need a license to buy ammunition so they are reasonably controlled.
BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
There's a Gun Free Zone shopping mall in Cape Town, its been hit at least 6 times in 6 weeks by robbers armed with AK 47's and Police issues R5 rifles. I guess those magic "Gun Free Zone" signs don't work on criminals.
What anti's and some so called pro gun but wants restrictions do not seem to grasp, "CRIMINALS IGNORE GUN LAWS!"
What anti's and some so called pro gun but wants restrictions do not seem to grasp, "CRIMINALS IGNORE GUN LAWS!"
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Of course they do Brit, but they also follow social norms in that if your target is likely to be unarmed you could well just take a knife and avoid the risk of life in jail, whereas if everyone is armed then naturally you will want sufficent firepower- i.e a few men armed with assault rifles.
The innocent party is still likely to lose out, with the added bonus of plenty of innocent casualties.
You see it even in different towns after bars close in New Zealand. Some towns you may cop a beating, some you are truly risking your life. Its all about where the bar of how hard you need to go to be a hero has been set.
In any case i do to an extent agree that a little old lady may have the right to even the playing field (should she have the reflexes and situational awareness and courage to make the d) but i would much rather my grandma was robbed and maybe pushed down trying to fight off some thug then stabbed or shot by someone afraid she may be packing.
Criminals dont carry guns here, simply because they really dont need to carry that risk to achieve what they want.
As a caveat on my point - we have social security so nobody is really desperate enough to use deadly force intentionally on an innocent party.
The innocent party is still likely to lose out, with the added bonus of plenty of innocent casualties.
You see it even in different towns after bars close in New Zealand. Some towns you may cop a beating, some you are truly risking your life. Its all about where the bar of how hard you need to go to be a hero has been set.
In any case i do to an extent agree that a little old lady may have the right to even the playing field (should she have the reflexes and situational awareness and courage to make the d) but i would much rather my grandma was robbed and maybe pushed down trying to fight off some thug then stabbed or shot by someone afraid she may be packing.
Criminals dont carry guns here, simply because they really dont need to carry that risk to achieve what they want.
As a caveat on my point - we have social security so nobody is really desperate enough to use deadly force intentionally on an innocent party.
BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
I wish that was the case here, the crims carry and know that most people are now unarmed so they know their victims are helpless.
There was an attack by AK47 carrying crims not long ago at at mall cafe, one of the patrons was armed with a little 38 snubbie and shot one of the attackers dead, the rest of the gang fled. Then we had the St James Massacre just before the elections in 1994, one man drove off the attackers with a 38 snubbie. The chap who fought back is a very good friend of mine.
http://www.frontline.org.za/index.p...cre-19-years-ago&catid=64:news-cat&Itemid=266
Criminals here are fond of beating an helpless old lady, raping her, then murdering her. There has been a couple in the town, one lady was 83 years old.
Crims carry guns here as a matter of course.
Thankfully you are living in a civilised country, we aren't. Some of the crimes against people here goes beyond savage, like burning alive a very young infant.
Typical falacy. Many people, usually guys, say "Give the rapist what he wants!" and things will be fine, the thing is you don't know what he wants. As Brit said, he may want to leave no witnesses, you can't assume that all he wants to do is a rape or robbery.