Gun laws

But isnt it a differing train of thought? That every citizen can think logically and therefore be trusted with a firearm for defense, however criminals do not? I am saying that neither crims nor civillians are entirely logical or trustworthy and so neither should have them, or at most in a limited capacity.
 
Typical falacy. Many people, usually guys, say "Give the rapist what he wants!" and things will be fine, the thing is you don't know what he wants. As Brit said, he may want to leave no witnesses, you can't assume that all he wants to do is a rape or robbery.

Just out of interest who has ever said "Give the rapist what he wants!"

I am told it is standard practice to give a robber what they want primarily because **** is easily replaced and it just isn't worth risking injury over and it was standard practice until 9/11 to acquiesce to hijackers demands but I doubt it is any more.

But what I have never seen the "guns for defense" crowd explain is how you get around the fact that unless he is incredibly stupid the mugger, robber, rapist will always get the first move because lets face it the guy walking a few feet behind you on a quiet street 99% of the time is not a criminal, the guy walking up your driveway or knocking on your door has done nothing wrong.
 
Just out of interest who has ever said "Give the rapist what he wants!"

I am told it is standard practice to give a robber what they want primarily because **** is easily replaced and it just isn't worth risking injury over and it was standard practice until 9/11 to acquiesce to hijackers demands but I doubt it is any more.

But what I have never seen the "guns for defense" crowd explain is how you get around the fact that unless he is incredibly stupid the mugger, robber, rapist will always get the first move because lets face it the guy walking a few feet behind you on a quiet street 99% of the time is not a criminal, the guy walking up your driveway or knocking on your door has done nothing wrong.

Gun Free South Africa are fond of saying "Give the criminal what he wants," or if rape is imminent "Beg and plead." Neither works because people have been murdered for a cell phone and rapists love to see their victims cower and beg and plead.

The chances are the guy in my driveway isn't there to ask for directions, he's finding out if anyone is home to see if its safe to break in.

The wife of a friend of mine bought a little 38 Snubbie from me, 5 men tried to break into her house while she was there, she dropped one as he broke through the front door and the rest fled. She swears to this day, if she hadn't got her little 38 snubbie she would have been raped and murdered.

As I said, owning a firearm can mean the difference between life and death, literally. Count yourself lucky that you live somewhere civilized, some of us don't. How many babies have been shot in the back of the head where you live, how many have been burned alive, how many 9 month old babies have been raped where you live, how many babies have been murdered and their body parts have been used for mutti (medicine) where you live?

If you want to see crime scene photographs Monty just ask, then maybe you will understand why owning a firearm is so crucial for self defence. In the vast majority of murders, nothing is stolen. Its murder for the sake of murder.
 
Last edited:
Well i suggest a lot more is ****ed about your country then firearm laws. The usa isnt in that state.
 
Last edited:
Well i suggest a lot more is ****ed about your country then firearm laws. The usa isnt in that state.

The US are lucky that in most states they have "Shall Issue CCW."

The sad thing is, South Africa is so beautiful, the scenery and wildlife are stunning and because of crime tourism has dropped like a lead balloon. Another sad thing, the ANC won't do bugger all about it, they are too interested in filling their bank accounts.
 
Well i suggest a lot more is ****ed about your country then firearm laws. The usa isnt in that state.

This is exactly it the "every one needs a gun" solution is ambulance at the bottom of the cliff thinking, it says we cant solve our problems so lets just let it sink to the base level and use fear to control the population, without a doubt explains why this country is infested with South Africans.

I also think it is wrong to try and compare South Africa and the USA as the problems are from very different causes.
 
Last edited:
I see what brit and the others mean- its all very well to say there shouldnt be firearms but its another thing to actually get them off people, especially when its like a religion. The law abiding would be the first to turn them in giving crims a few golden years.

Change has to start somewhere and i think long term its not impossible to get all the assault rifles off people. It took many years after ww2 but it happened.
Its just getting through the teething period of any policy change which always favours those who resist it- i.e giving people access to certain weapons and steadily stepping it down.

South Africa sounds like a real dodgy place. My parents used to go every few years but have stopped now.
 
I see what brit and the others mean- its all very well to say there shouldnt be firearms but its another thing to actually get them off people, especially when its like a religion. The law abiding would be the first to turn them in giving crims a few golden years.

Change has to start somewhere and i think long term its not impossible to get all the assault rifles off people. It took many years after ww2 but it happened.
Its just getting through the teething period of any policy change which always favours those who resist it- i.e giving people access to certain weapons and steadily stepping it down.

South Africa sounds like a real dodgy place. My parents used to go every few years but have stopped now.

Perhaps now you know why I am so passionate in my opposition of government and police imposed gun control under the guise of so called crime control, when in fact it has the opposite effect.

This is exactly it the "every one needs a gun" solution is ambulance at the bottom of the cliff thinking, it says we cant solve our problems so lets just let it sink to the base level and use fear to control the population, without a doubt explains why this country is infested with South Africans.

I also think it is wrong to try and compare South Africa and the USA as the problems are from very different causes.

Until the ANC government are serious about crime and actually do something about it, then the only solution is an ambulance at the bottom of a cliff. Only problem is, it wont happen any time soon because the ANC government and the police are extremely corrupt, quite a few government officials and police officers have be caught take part in criminal acts, including rape, robbery and murder.
 
Last edited:
I see what brit and the others mean- its all very well to say there shouldnt be firearms but its another thing to actually get them off people, especially when its like a religion. The law abiding would be the first to turn them in giving crims a few golden years.

Change has to start somewhere and i think long term its not impossible to get all the assault rifles off people. It took many years after ww2 but it happened.
Its just getting through the teething period of any policy change which always favours those who resist it- i.e giving people access to certain weapons and steadily stepping it down.

South Africa sounds like a real dodgy place. My parents used to go every few years but have stopped now.

But again the problems are different, it is clear that South Africa is bordering on being a failed state with problems at every level and as such it may be that arming the population is the best option, the problem in the USA is not the same I am convinced their problem is simply non-existent controls on firearms, they have a myriad of laws with regards to firearms but none of them are effective as they are not enforced or easily circumvented.

I also remain convinced that trying to get assault rifles off them is pointless as are magazine restrictions, they are just distractions so politicians can pretend that they are doing something.
Remove assault weapon bans and close the loopholes in the system and things will improve basically let normal people buy any weapons they want and spend your time and energy stopping the nutters from getting them.
 
But again the problems are different, it is clear that South Africa is bordering on being a failed state with problems at every level and as such it may be that arming the population is the best option, the problem in the USA is not the same I am convinced their problem is simply non-existent controls on firearms, they have a myriad of laws with regards to firearms but none of them are effective as they are not enforced or easily circumvented.

South Africa isn't becoming a fail state, it IS a failed state. At one point South Africa was exporting food, but due to the government taking over farms and giving them to blacks, the country is now importing food stuffs. Corruption is rife throughout the country. One group of whites in the north stopped paying council taxes, because the ANC council was pocketing everything they got their hands on. Instead the whites are using the money to carry out road repairs along with school and hospital work as required. Guess what, they are actually making a profit which goes into the fund.


I also remain convinced that trying to get assault rifles off them is pointless as are magazine restrictions, they are just distractions so politicians can pretend that they are doing something.
Remove assault weapon bans and close the loopholes in the system and things will improve basically let normal people buy any weapons they want and spend your time and energy stopping the nutters from getting them.

For once we are in agreement. Governments don't pass laws to keep the public safe, they pass laws to stay in office.
 
But how to stop the nutters getting them?

I would have suggested "Shall Issue CCW," but in states in the USA where there is "Shall Issue CCW" where some sort of training is required, gang bangers are still getting hold of guns illegally. I wish I had a fool proof answer, but I don't, I don't think anyone has.
 
I would have suggested "Shall Issue CCW," but in states in the USA where there is "Shall Issue CCW" where some sort of training is required, gang bangers are still getting hold of guns illegally. I wish I had a fool proof answer, but I don't, I don't think anyone has.
Gangs/Criminals getting guns illegally & law abiding Citizens benefiting from "Shall issue CCW" is 2 seperate things.
 
Governments don't pass gun laws to protect the people, nor do they do it so they can stay in office. They do it so they can victimize the people and get away with it.

How many morons are gonna try to rape a 15 year old girl armed with a 12 gauge pump action, compared to a 15 year old girl that is unarmed?

Look at Hitler. Mao. Stalin. Only criminals love guns laws.
 
I have tried hard to avoid saying this, but it holds true where ever there are blacks in office.
Please, I'm not a racist, but the facts are hard to ignore. Just do the research and prove me wrong. How many countries that were run by whites have changed over to blacks and have been successful. There's a few I'm sure of it. But in many cases I do not see that. Sadly, look at who the US has in office right now and look at what he's doing.

If you're gonna have a farm, make it productive. Don't jack around with this tribal BS, just get it done and get it producing. That's the only way to get past poverty. Look at how many decades the Somolis' and Ethiopians have been begging for help.
 
I have tried hard to avoid saying this, but it holds true where ever there are blacks in office.
Please, I'm not a racist, but the facts are hard to ignore. Just do the research and prove me wrong. How many countries that were run by whites have changed over to blacks and have been successful. There's a few I'm sure of it. But in many cases I do not see that. Sadly, look at who the US has in office right now and look at what he's doing.

Botswana and Namibia are doing quite well as far as I know, but that's about it.

If you're gonna have a farm, make it productive. Don't jack around with this tribal BS, just get it done and get it producing. That's the only way to get past poverty. Look at how many decades the Somolis' and Ethiopians have been begging for help.

South Africa was exporting food, but since farms have been handed over to "their" people by the ANC none as far as I am aware are being worked but being left to go back to nature and farm equipment is being left to rot. Since the farms hand over, food is now being imported.

Begging for help is an African national sport. They hate the West, but they love their money.
 
I cannot comprehend the level of poverty they have there. They are literally skin and bones. Flies all over them. No, I've never been there to see if it's real or made up. I have worked for a video production company, so I know how much can be done. Under those conditions you can make nearly anything look real. I dunno what is really there.

If that is true what I see on the TV, then I have to ask what kind of mentality the warlords have. They are there fighting, but for what? Their families die of poverty, and they are doing nothing?

There are a lot of resources there that can, if utilized correctly, could reduce poverty upto 10% per year. Ethiopia so far is 10% in 7 years.
 
I cannot comprehend the level of poverty they have there. They are literally skin and bones. Flies all over them. No, I've never been there to see if it's real or made up. I have worked for a video production company, so I know how much can be done. Under those conditions you can make nearly anything look real. I dunno what is really there.

If that is true what I see on the TV, then I have to ask what kind of mentality the warlords have. They are there fighting, but for what? Their families die of poverty, and they are doing nothing?

There are a lot of resources there that can, if utilized correctly, could reduce poverty upto 10% per year. Ethiopia so far is 10% in 7 years.

Africa is the richest continent on the planet, with gold, diamonds, copper uranium and the list goes on, yet its people are the poorest.

The problem with Africa is, governments and their ministers are greedy, their only real interest is filling their own bank accounts and they couldn't care less about the people.

The sad thing is the masses have been brainwashed with so much propaganda they take everything they are told as gospel and vote for them time after time.

Every time the South African ANC government stuff up they blame apartheid. Apartheid has been over since 1994, yet its always apartheid's fault. I have had blacks admit to me that they were far better off under apartheid and wish it could come back again. Even the west believed (and still does) the b******!te propaganda of the ANC. Some even say that Mandela is a hero, he was a freaking terrorist, he murdered women and children FFS.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, UK gave Zuma the president of South Africa£19 million, he spent £17.5 of it on his own palace.

We had a woman here a few years ago from the US Peace Corps, within 6 weeks she demanded to go home because the people she was helping were lazy and weren't willing to help themselves.
 
Ah hell. Finestein is a traitor to her own people. She doesn't remember the history the jews have. For centuries and centuries, people have sought to exterminate the jews. And WHO, of all nations, stood up and kicked ass in order to protect the jews?

The US. During WW2. You remember that.

Well, you're doing better than Finestein, because she doesn't.
In the meantime even though Finestein has clearly acted more like a communist, she has had far more effect on the destruction of the US, and has every intent in the world to make sure she can destroy America, people have more of a hissy fit over Jane Fonda over something she has repeatedly apologized for.

Funny thing is, I don't remember Finestein ever apologizing.
 
Back
Top